Volvo S40 Electric Power Steering Swap

[DPDISXR4Ti]

Bruno listened. He has gone ALL IN on the Volvo pump and developed TWO controllers. I never even thought about the idea of having a GPS input. Too cool....

https://www.servtronic.com/collections/ ... aulic-pump

[thesameguy]

YES! I just got the email on this and am very excited.

I've not had a chance to digest it yet, but I think I know what I'm doing this fall! The GPS input makes perfect sense - lots of older cars do not have a way to generate a speed signal, and GPS speed -> CANBUS is a great way to solve that problem. For the XR, you wouldn't need this if you're running a T5 (and probably C3) as there are OE and aftermarket VSS solutions, but it might be required for T9.

[my8950]

Good to hear this as I just saw my S40 pump and wiring in a bucket that I put on the shelf last year.

[Nmstec]

YES! I just got the email on this and am very excited.

I've not had a chance to digest it yet, but I think I know what I'm doing this fall! The GPS input makes perfect sense - lots of older cars do not have a way to generate a speed signal, and GPS speed -> CANBUS is a great way to solve that problem. For the XR, you wouldn't need this if you're running a T5 (and probably C3) as there are OE and aftermarket VSS solutions, but it might be required for T9.

I would highly NOT recommend GPS. GPS has a tendency to be unreliable and jump in speed.
As for alternatives to pumps, i'd recommend Mazda pumps. They are identical in size and pressures to volvo (same ford parent), but do not run in limp mode, thus very few people have bought them due to lack of controls. Luckily I can shamelessly plug my product here that supports almost every kind of EHPAS, and rack/column EPAS.

https://www.nmstec.ca/product/psc/

If you have a bit of electronics experience, I also released the volvo code online a while ago: https://github.com/NMSTEC/Volvo_EPS_FREE

[my8950]

YES! I just got the email on this and am very excited.

I've not had a chance to digest it yet, but I think I know what I'm doing this fall! The GPS input makes perfect sense - lots of older cars do not have a way to generate a speed signal, and GPS speed -> CANBUS is a great way to solve that problem. For the XR, you wouldn't need this if you're running a T5 (and probably C3) as there are OE and aftermarket VSS solutions, but it might be required for T9.

I would highly NOT recommend GPS. GPS has a tendency to be unreliable and jump in speed.
As for alternatives to pumps, i'd recommend Mazda pumps. They are identical in size and pressures to volvo (same ford parent), but do not run in limp mode, thus very few people have bought them due to lack of controls. Luckily I can shamelessly plug my product here that supports almost every kind of EHPAS, and rack/column EPAS.

https://www.nmstec.ca/product/psc/

If you have a bit of electronics experience, I also released the volvo code online a while ago: https://github.com/NMSTEC/Volvo_EPS_FREE

Do you have info on which Mazda vehicles have this sort of pump?
I am insterested/curious as I plan to go this route on a project car I have.

[Nmstec]

2010-2012 Mazda 3&5, are fully can based, so we can easily bump up pump speed with a fake SAS input. The older ones will still work, but had a direct connection to SAS, and faking it wasnt as easy. Depending on the weight and load you plan on putting on the vehicle, older ones would still work, but would need slightly higher pump speed to compensate for fast inputs. Newer ones react much faster due to SAS signal being emulated by my controller. I am also adding inputs for temp & pressure, so the controller can manually compensate if it detects high temps or sudden pressure drop.

[my8950]

2010-2012 Mazda 3&5, are fully can based, so we can easily bump up pump speed with a fake SAS input. The older ones will still work, but had a direct connection to SAS, and faking it wasnt as easy. Depending on the weight and load you plan on putting on the vehicle, older ones would still work, but would need slightly higher pump speed to compensate for fast inputs. Newer ones react much faster due to SAS signal being emulated by my controller. I am also adding inputs for temp & pressure, so the controller can manually compensate if it detects high temps or sudden pressure drop.

Nice, thanks for the info!!!

[DPDISXR4Ti]

2010-2012 Mazda 3&5, are fully can based, so we can easily bump up pump speed with a fake SAS input. The older ones will still work, but had a direct connection to SAS, and faking it wasnt as easy. Depending on the weight and load you plan on putting on the vehicle, older ones would still work, but would need slightly higher pump speed to compensate for fast inputs. Newer ones react much faster due to SAS signal being emulated by my controller. I am also adding inputs for temp & pressure, so the controller can manually compensate if it detects high temps or sudden pressure drop.

Thanks for chiming in on this thread. I wasn't aware that someone else had a solution. FWIW, I had also mostly discounted the idea of using a GPS solution due to potential issues due to loss of signal. A few questions if you don't mind....

1) As you may note from my post on page 3, I've got both a Volvo and Mazda pump on the shelf. Furthermore, you might note that my Mazda pump while pulled from a 2006 vehicle was a recall replacement 2011-dated pump. Any idea if this might be the CAN-based pump or would it still have needed to be the older style to match to the older vehicle?

2) It sounds like with your solution you have a choice of manually controlling via the rheostat or via sensor input, yes?

3) Can you compare your solution to the one from Bruno?

I'll have follow-up questions, but let's start there.

[Nmstec]

Thanks for chiming in on this thread. I wasn't aware that someone else had a solution. FWIW, I had also mostly discounted the idea of using a GPS solution due to potential issues due to loss of signal. A few questions if you don't mind....

1) As you may note from my post on page 3, I've got both a Volvo and Mazda pump on the shelf. Furthermore, you might note that my Mazda pump while pulled from a 2006 vehicle was a recall replacement 2011-dated pump. Any idea if this might be the CAN-based pump or would it still have needed to be the older style to match to the older vehicle?

2) It sounds like with your solution you have a choice of manually controlling via the rheostat or via sensor input, yes?

3) Can you compare your solution to the one from Bruno?

I'll have follow-up questions, but let's start there.

Hey Brad,

1) It is indeed just an update unit from the 2010-2012 models, and simply uses the information already on the canbus for the SAS. They are fully backwards compatible. Just as a clarification the old unit is still canbus based, but it read the SAS info from its own dedicated SAS. Where as it still has another one in the clock spring for the ABS. New unit simply reads the one in the clockspring instead.
I've attached a snippet of the diagram below.



I have revision 3 in manufacturing right now with dual canbus, so if its installed with a SAS on the vehicle, we can utilize that as a "assist boost" for EHPAS systems. I've also added inputs for Temperature and pressure for compensation and keeping a completely linear assist torque if wanted by user.

2) More than that, one of the basic features is just an analog input with filtering and protection, allowing you to use basically any type of rheostat, potentiometer, hall sensor.

3) Most of the difference is with the UI, adjustability, multiple different systems, and input/output capabilities. One single unit supports every vehicle that I can get my hands on and reverse engineer, as well as supports HALL/VR vss inputs, acts as a VR conditioner for your ECU, Canbus VSS input, and output, 2d map for EPS adjustability by VSS, and multiple outputs. I am terrible with explaining things, so instead here is a video of me terribly explaining some of the features in my controller.

https://youtu.be/ns88mwGoSsA

Another big thing for me, is I also do constant updates to them. So if I add a new vehicle, find a bug, or in general want to add a feature, its a 2 minute process to update. This way you can resell the unit if you do not need it, or change to a different EPAS/EHPAS system altogether and not have to replace the controller.

Entertainingly enough, we were the guys that released the volvo code on the RusEFI forum 2 months ago, seems that code sprung up more businesses than expected

[DPDISXR4Ti]

Thanks for the details. Some more questions whenever time permits...

1) Assuming installation in a non-original application (a Merkur), I assume you'd need to add the sensors that provide the additional inputs (i.e angle sensor, clockspring, etc), yes? Is adding a clockspring even a reasonable possibility?

2) Let's assume for a moment that your controller fails and you're using the Mazda pump. No power steering at all? I'm thinking with the Volvo pump it would default to the "limp home" pressure. It's not like this type of failure is going to leave you stranded, so it's not the end of the world - just trying to understand it all.

[Nmstec]

Thanks for the details. Some more questions whenever time permits...

1) Assuming installation in a non-original application (a Merkur), I assume you'd need to add the sensors that provide the additional inputs (i.e angle sensor, clockspring, etc), yes? Is adding a clockspring even a reasonable possibility?

2) Let's assume for a moment that your controller fails and you're using the Mazda pump. No power steering at all? I'm thinking with the Volvo pump it would default to the "limp home" pressure. It's not like this type of failure is going to leave you stranded, so it's not the end of the world - just trying to understand it all.

Hey,

1. Depending on what install you're going for you don't really need a SAS. SAS is useful for boosting assist on slow turns if your pump is turned down. Otherwise simply adding a bit extra power as default in low vehicle speeds would already cover that issue.
If using Racks/Columns they come with torque sensors already built in, negating the need for SAS in the first place.

Installation of a SAS, really depends mostly on the SAS you'd like to install and location. I am a big fan of https://www.bosch-mobility-solutions.co ... le-sensor/

These guys were used on most audis 00-08. Very low profile, and long ago reverse engineered. They can be installed (With some fabrication) nearly anywhere, including further down the column near firewall.

For a OEM vehicle, I'd recommend setting it into VSS map mode, tapping the Yel-Brn wire (It goes to instrument cluster, cruise control, Fuel computer, ABS), and then playing with the values until you are happy with the response at each speed. I do not think you will need a SAS at all, as I am using mazda pump on several vehicles, including my S13 LS drift car. Response at 85% is perfect with no delay in steering.



2. You are correct, if my controller fails, the next ignition cycle the (mazda) PS pump will stop working. Although I am sure you've heard of this before from many companies, but I have yet to have a single failure, and am running one of my early versions all day, every day. It's racked up 1600 hours at this point without shutting down (Mostly doing this test for heat test, and see if I made any mistakes in code with an overflow).

For protection, Input power is 24v tolerant, reverse polarity protected, with plenty of filtration for a case of failing alternator. All inputs are 24v tolerant as well. Analog and PWM input pins are highly filtered with averaging logic, to prevent bouncing values.

My warranty policy is 1 year warranty, free exchange, but will require the damaged module back mostly for investigation purposes.



There are plenty of other EHPAS/EPAS systems, and I support nearly all of them. Some of which have limp mode, some don't.
Some from the top of my head that do:

Volvo, Prius, BRZ/FRS/GT86, Charger Racks, Charger EHPAS.

These don't:
Mazda, Ford (EU only), Ford Racks, Ford Columns, KIA Columns, Nissan 14-18.

If you'd like you can contact me anytime for an immediate (Or close to) response, at info@nmstec.ca

EDIT: I actually need to thank you. This is all stuff I should cover in the "educational" videos im making for this system. Wouldn't have thought of it myself.

[DPDISXR4Ti]

1. Depending on what install you're going for you don't really need a SAS. SAS is useful for boosting assist on slow turns if your pump is turned down.
Installation of a SAS, really depends mostly on the SAS you'd like to install and location. I am a big fan of https://www.bosch-mobility-solutions.co ... le-sensor/

These guys were used on most audis 00-08. Very low profile, and long ago reverse engineered. They can be installed (With some fabrication) nearly anywhere, including further down the column near firewall.

Ironically enough, my daily driver is a 2002 A4. It would be fun to share parts between the two.

Happy to help with your marketing - the thing I'd suggest is focusing on the usage. The retrofit market, which is what we're clearly talking about on a 1980's vehicle, should have the option to be as simple as possible. Most of us don't have any desire to re-engineer the steering column which is why we've focused on EHPAS here.

As you realize, the biggest plus about the Volvo pump is that it's default mode means it doesn't require ANY additional controller, at least as a starting point. If we're now going to add a controller (as the Mazda pump would require), it should be as simple as possible. Starting with just a rheostat control means no sensors to add at install. Then perhaps come back later and add SAS.

[Nmstec]

1. Depending on what install you're going for you don't really need a SAS. SAS is useful for boosting assist on slow turns if your pump is turned down.
Installation of a SAS, really depends mostly on the SAS you'd like to install and location. I am a big fan of https://www.bosch-mobility-solutions.co ... le-sensor/

These guys were used on most audis 00-08. Very low profile, and long ago reverse engineered. They can be installed (With some fabrication) nearly anywhere, including further down the column near firewall.

Ironically enough, my daily driver is a 2002 A4. It would be fun to share parts between the two.

Happy to help with your marketing - the thing I'd suggest is focusing on the usage. The retrofit market, which is what we're clearly talking about on a 1980's vehicle, should have the option to be as simple as possible. Most of us don't have any desire to re-engineer the steering column which is why we've focused on EHPAS here.

As you realize, the biggest plus about the Volvo pump is that it's default mode means it doesn't require ANY additional controller, at least as a starting point. If we're now going to add a controller (as the Mazda pump would require), it should be as simple as possible. Starting with just a rheostat control means no sensors to add at install. Then perhaps come back later and add SAS.

Yep. EHPAS is my most common sales point. Controller does have Rheostat/Potentiometer/Hall/Analog input for exactly that case. On top of that you can calibrate any kind of analog input as seen in the video I posted showing its functions.
It is the default setting when using the controller. All other functions are just extra cherries on top.

[brokencase]

OK,
I would love to do away with the Scorpio power steering pump and switch to the Volvo unit.
From what I can see here thus far is the YouTube guy successfully installs the Volvo pump in his drifting car.
However the problem is that the unit is run in a default power setting which is non-ideal.

I am sure there is more but I have only skimmed through the prior posts. If I have missed something then let me know.

As I understand it, We suspect that through CAN bus the unit is slowed down as vehicle speed increases?

There are CAN bus shields for Arduino. But we would need to sniff the bus on a real Volvo in order to find out what to do.

If someone could tell me what commands to send to the unit I would be more than happy to write code that takes the Vss sensor output on the Scorpio trans and then generate the proper CANbus commands to send to the unit.

Semi-Retired Embedded systems guy, Best I can offer.

[andyofcolumbusmerkur]

Screw Arduino. Run 22.04 Jammy Jellyfish on a raspberry and your done. No need to run Fortran or some Allen Bradley controller with 32k of memory. Actually this is the steering we are talking about so better off skipping the extraneous electronics (with bugs and delays) and use an adjustable controller. Maybe with a dash mounted knob for fine tuning?