Single Stage or Two-Stage Factory Paint?
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Single Stage or Two-Stage Factory Paint?
Starting to do some much needed spot and roof damage body repairs, and debating on paint and maybe a color change. But, I'm confused about the factory black (or any solid) colors on these XR's and whether the solid colors were done in single stage.
After some prelim cleaning and polishing, and seeing some areas didn't gloss up, but actually faded dull, I'm wondering if this car was done in factory single stage, or basecoat-clear. I know a couple panels were repaired by a shop were done in basecoat-clear (despite my specific request to be done with several coats of SS). Those spots are obvious, as the thin clearcoats are now completely kaput, while the rest of the car is solid. I can't find any seam or corner, such as where the doors transition to the interior side, where there's any CC beginning to peel/fade.
I don't want to waste a lot of time refinishing this, only to find that I laid down new paint over weak clear that's just not yet showing signs of deterioration (but will not long after a repaint).
Is it my imagination, or were the Merkur solid colors all done in single stage back then, and the metallics done in BC/CC. Or, were they all clearcoat?
After some prelim cleaning and polishing, and seeing some areas didn't gloss up, but actually faded dull, I'm wondering if this car was done in factory single stage, or basecoat-clear. I know a couple panels were repaired by a shop were done in basecoat-clear (despite my specific request to be done with several coats of SS). Those spots are obvious, as the thin clearcoats are now completely kaput, while the rest of the car is solid. I can't find any seam or corner, such as where the doors transition to the interior side, where there's any CC beginning to peel/fade.
I don't want to waste a lot of time refinishing this, only to find that I laid down new paint over weak clear that's just not yet showing signs of deterioration (but will not long after a repaint).
Is it my imagination, or were the Merkur solid colors all done in single stage back then, and the metallics done in BC/CC. Or, were they all clearcoat?
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Re: Single Stage or Two-Stage Factory Paint?
My Rosso Red is base coat, and my Chestnut Metallic is clear-coated (both '88s)
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- DPDISXR4Ti
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Re: Single Stage or Two-Stage Factory Paint?
I believe that ^^^^ is exactly the case.john keefe wrote: ↑Sat Nov 19, 2022 5:28 pm were the Merkur solid colors all done in single stage back then, and the metallics done in BC/CC?
Brad
- brokencase
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Re: Single Stage or Two-Stage Factory Paint?
I'm not sure all solid colors were single stage but I know for certain that the Diamond White Scorpios are single stage.
I actually prefer single stage paint. It is more maintainable over the long term.
I actually prefer single stage paint. It is more maintainable over the long term.
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Re: Single Stage or Two-Stage Factory Paint?
Thanks Guys. As mentioned, don't want to waste effort repainting only to find it peeling in a couple years because of the crappy CC repair. So, would you sand off just the CC and get it down to the BC, or take it all the way down to the primer I assuming they shot over the factory black prior to the repaint?
From what I've seen out here in Sunny CA, even 5-6 year old cars seem to have clearcoat fading problems; 8-10 yr with significant peeling. I know the quality of both SS and BC/CC are much better these days than a decade ago, but seems with the low VOC requirements they still haven't figured out a truly durable CC. I know the claim from those who prefer BC/CC is that the CC is really durable, but I just don't see it. By comparison, my 2013 F150 SS factory white still looks great, and the original factory-black on the unrepaired side of my XR still looks like it can take another round of cleaning/polishing, even 30+ years old.
Funny thing I've noticed, in every video, is that when a SS gets applied (HVLP), there seems to be far less overspray and waste than when applying CC. I just see a huge fog of CC overspray in the booths, every time. I'm pretty wary of that, not to mention having to spray at least twice the total number of coats in BC/CC than with SS. While I'd do fans and plenty of filters, I don't want to saturate my garage that I can't work in there for a few days, or blow so much VOC through the neighborhood that I'd piss good people off.
Yeah, reading/seeing all sorts of arguments about old school SS vs. new school BC/CC. The current argument is that you can apply 2-3 coats of clear, and you'd have something to sand/polish to a gloss. But, that was always the advantage of SS (urethane and acrylic urethane); if you applied at least 2 very good, (or 3) coats, as long as it wasn't metallic. If it gets dull, you just clay bar, and/or repeat polish/finish to get to "fresher" paint under the faded top layer.brokencase wrote: ↑Fri Nov 25, 2022 1:46 amI actually prefer single stage paint. It is more maintainable over the long term.
From what I've seen out here in Sunny CA, even 5-6 year old cars seem to have clearcoat fading problems; 8-10 yr with significant peeling. I know the quality of both SS and BC/CC are much better these days than a decade ago, but seems with the low VOC requirements they still haven't figured out a truly durable CC. I know the claim from those who prefer BC/CC is that the CC is really durable, but I just don't see it. By comparison, my 2013 F150 SS factory white still looks great, and the original factory-black on the unrepaired side of my XR still looks like it can take another round of cleaning/polishing, even 30+ years old.
Funny thing I've noticed, in every video, is that when a SS gets applied (HVLP), there seems to be far less overspray and waste than when applying CC. I just see a huge fog of CC overspray in the booths, every time. I'm pretty wary of that, not to mention having to spray at least twice the total number of coats in BC/CC than with SS. While I'd do fans and plenty of filters, I don't want to saturate my garage that I can't work in there for a few days, or blow so much VOC through the neighborhood that I'd piss good people off.
- andyofcolumbusmerkur
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Re: Single Stage or Two-Stage Factory Paint?
There are some really high quality (and expensive) clears available that are super durable. Just like everything else you get what you pay for. I think you could just scuff and squirt and be fine. If the paint was not sticking to the primer then I would say to sand it down. Check out the book how to paint your car on a budget by Pat Ganahl. It's got some neat stuff in there and worth checking out even if you aren't painting yourself.
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Re: Single Stage or Two-Stage Factory Paint?
Thanks Andy. I understand getting what you pay for, esp. these days... IDK if I need a super-durable CC at that kinda' cost, I just don't want to be doing this again in 5 years, which is why I'm still leaning to the SS, not to mention fewer coats needed. What I know for sure is that the old, factory SS black is still looking good, and can probably hold up to a couple more renew polish/buff/finishes.
- brokencase
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Re: Single Stage or Two-Stage Factory Paint?
If you are planning on painting yourself then definitely go with single stage. If you get a spec of dust on the surface you can always wet sand and buff it smooth.
You really need a nice, clean, painting booth for proper clear coating. Most folk's can't do that at home. I know I couldn't.
I painted my Bugeye in the garage around 2008 and it came out pretty darn good (single stage, 2 coats as I recall). Unfortunately the car was later rear ended and the repair shop did base+clear coat.
I plan on painting one more car in my lifetime. My late brother's Triumph GT6. Plan is primer and then single stage "Carmine Red" in Spring 2023.
You really need a nice, clean, painting booth for proper clear coating. Most folk's can't do that at home. I know I couldn't.
I painted my Bugeye in the garage around 2008 and it came out pretty darn good (single stage, 2 coats as I recall). Unfortunately the car was later rear ended and the repair shop did base+clear coat.
I plan on painting one more car in my lifetime. My late brother's Triumph GT6. Plan is primer and then single stage "Carmine Red" in Spring 2023.
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