Cupholder Rant

[Ed Lijewski]

How could I have been so blind? The advantages of an automatic trans are so clear to me now!!! Who needs the extra weight and rotating mass of FIVE gears, when you can obviously get by with THREE!! 4000RPM @ 75MPH? No problem!! I can still have my coffee!!! YAAY!!! And why have a complicated setup like a clutch and pressure plate and linkages of all sorts, when all you need is a MUSHY, FLUID-FILLED, washing machine drum to couple your engine and drivetrain!!! And when it finally breaks, I can have the satisfaction of spending $1600 just to get it to be all mushy and slow, AGAIN!!!! WHEEEEE!!!!!!

I think I'm gonna go yank that T9 outta my car and replace it with some belts and pulleys RIGHT NOW!!!!!!!!!

Obviously, your, um, logic is faulty (and the cause of your vision issue). The C3 rebuild is relatively simple--hell, even you could do it (maybe). You can pay through the nose if you want to (at AAMCO, e.g.) but you don't have to.

OTOH, I bet I could have two, maybe even three, C3s rebuilt professionally for the cost of a reliable, durable manual rebuild.

As for the higher highway rpms--it's obvious again that you don't enjoy driving in the meat of the power band (your loss).

And, take this: you can't drive a manual XR in the snow/ice/slush, but you can drive the auto XRs in those conditions (carefully, always); using 2nd gear starts and even keeping it in second gear (city) to use engine drag when slowing down, makes it possible. And, you can do it with a coffee cup, or your twin boys, held or caressed with your free hand.

C3s shifting harsh? Sure, when worn out or abused maybe. Johnnie B. Brennan rode in one of mine and will testify he felt none of that--because it's not typical of them; they're smooth and positive shifters when new and while treated fairly, and they're durable (the reason Ford put them in the XR [Duh!])

YMMV

[logic]

I had a C3 auto in my first XR for approx. 5 years. At first, I was ok with it, simply because it was my first car and I didn't know any better. Eventually, that trans died, and I had it rebuilt at a Lee Myles transmission shop in Queens for about $1500, which is more than what my eventual T5 swap cost me. Oh, it was great after the rebuild, for about a year. Then, all the same crap started happening again -- delayed upshifts, harsh engagement, heat issues, etc. This time, I didn't wait for it to die completely -- I just had PM rip it out and put in a TC T5. Mind you, that was the first time I would be driving stick, ever. After about 3 months of stalling at intersections and missed shifts, I got comfortable with it, and the advantages of a 5-speed over the slush-box became very apparent to me.

As for driving in slush and snow -- I at first had problems with that, but after about a week, got the hang of finessing the clutch to be able to drive with practically no problems. And that's with 215-45/17 Z-rated summer tires, too.

I generally dislike automatics. My father's 2000 Lincoln LS has a 5-speed auto in it, and with less than 40k miles on the car, works perfectly. But I still hate not having ultimate control over the trans while driving. My 94 Bronco has 4-speed AOD auto in it, and with 116k miles is starting to head south. I have contemplated doing a manual swap on the truck, but probably won't since my father can't drive stick and needs use of the truck every now and then.

I hate automatics.

[Ed Lijewski]

I had a C3 auto in my first XR for approx. 5 years.

My two auto XRs each have about 110K on the original trans--no issues.

Eventually, that trans died, and I had it rebuilt at a Lee Myles transmission shop in Queens for about $1500, which is more than what my eventual T5 swap cost me. Oh, it was great after the rebuild, for about a year. Then, all the same crap started happening again -- delayed upshifts, harsh engagement, heat issues, etc.

You got screwed (sorry).

I hate automatics.

I couldn't tell.

YMMV

[logic]

Well, I guess what it comes down to is like your sig says: YMMV

To each his own, or whatever.

In my experience, the C3 auto is just waaay below adequate for the XR. If it was an A4LD or something of that nature, with overdrive, I'm sure it wouldn't suck as much.

I love cruisin at 75mph in 5th gear @ 1800 - 2000 rpm though....

[Ed Lijewski]

I'll give you this: if the very large majority of your driving is turnpike and long distances, the 5-speed rules for saving on gas.

If that described most of my driving, I'd buy a Honda Insight

YMMV

[logic]

I agree with the turnpike/highway thing. I have been stuck in traffic on bridge on-ramps a few times where I was cursing the manual trans up and down, left and right. Driving around town can sometimes be a pain, too, especially when I'm tired. But -- all it takes is one quick drive in the mountains in PA, or in the Shenandoah valley in VA, or pretty much anywhere outside of the New York Metro area, and the PITA of being stuck in traffic is all but forgotten.

[Ray]

personally i dont mind driving a manual in traffic at all. it's something you get used to when you work in NYC (i did for only one summer). i live in the country with back roads. i like the connection you feel with the car and road with a manual moreso than with an automatic. even my old pickup is 4 on the floor (well, 3, first gear is a granny gear)

[Ed Lijewski]

Waaaaaay to go, Mr. D!

With the two of us in full offensive mode, we've got those shifty snobs on the run, Big Time!

YMMV

[fastmaul]

Actually, it's a no-brainer

Yeah listen to ed, I always got my hand out my sunroof or window driving in the city, I drive with my knee, I hold my drink in the city, I fight my my passangers.

Point well taken.

[Ed Lijewski]

All done on NJ and/or NYC roads.

And you're point is FPMSLROL

YMMV

[Ray]

Waaaaay to stay on topic guys.

[jasonty]

Personally the high RPM at highway speed in an auto XR pisses me off. :D
Ed, ive alway foud it WAY easier to drive a 5spd turbo car in inclement weather compared to an auto. in an auto you(i) cant control the boost as much as in the 5spd. atlleast in the 4 turbo cars ive had in the family since 80. Also, i believe Ford put them(c3) in the XR, cause they was cheap...thats all

...and to keep this on topic. my drink holder ranges from the passenger seat belt to the Rapido armrest, to being wedged in between the drivers seat and the armrest, but most bestly (for alex) dont drink in your car. They are for driving fast. Get the drink when you get there. :wink:

How could I have been so blind? :shock: The advantages of an automatic trans are so clear to me now!!! Who needs the extra weight and rotating mass of FIVE gears, when you can obviously get by with THREE!! 4000RPM @ 75MPH? No problem!! I can still have my coffee!!! YAAY!!! And why have a complicated setup like a clutch and pressure plate and linkages of all sorts, when all you need is a MUSHY, FLUID-FILLED, washing machine drum to couple your engine and drivetrain!!! And when it finally breaks, I can have the satisfaction of spending $1600 just to get it to be all mushy and slow, AGAIN!!!! WHEEEEE!!!!!!

I think I'm gonna go yank that T9 outta my car and replace it with some belts and pulleys RIGHT NOW!!!!!!!!!

:roll: :roll: :roll:

Obviously, your, um, logic is faulty (and the cause of your vision issue). The C3 rebuild is relatively simple--hell, even you could do it (maybe). You can pay through the nose if you want to (at AAMCO, e.g.) but you don't have to.

OTOH, I bet I could have two, maybe even three, C3s rebuilt professionally for the cost of a reliable, durable manual rebuild.

As for the higher highway rpms--it's obvious again that you don't enjoy driving in the meat of the power band (your loss).

And, take this: you can't drive a manual XR in the snow/ice/slush, but you can drive the auto XRs in those conditions (carefully, always); using 2nd gear starts and even keeping it in second gear (city) to use engine drag when slowing down, makes it possible. And, you can do it with a coffee cup, or your twin boys, held or caressed with your free hand. :P

C3s shifting harsh? Sure, when worn out or abused maybe. Johnnie B. Brennan rode in one of mine and will testify he felt none of that--because it's not typical of them; they're smooth and positive shifters when new and while treated fairly, and they're durable (the reason Ford put them in the XR [Duh!]) :P

YMMV 8)

[John Brennan]

I must indeed come to Ed's defense and say that his car ran smoothly and flawlessly.

Also, as I've said before, having had both boxes in my XR's, the automatic is well-matched to the engine and the car, and is a pleasure to drive, not only in town, but believe it or not, even on the track! It was one of the easiest-to-control-with-pedal-pressure autos I've ever owned, and especially good on urban freeways. I do prefer the 5-speed, and yes, cross crountry, Interstate blasts did tend to get tiresome with speeds over 70 mph-- in fact, I think when you're humming along at those speeds, the car is in open loop, so yeah, it could've used another cog.

[Ed Lijewski]

Personally the high RPM at highway speed in an auto XR pisses me off.

Only a psychoanalyst can help you. LOL But, lots of factors are involved and must be considered in assessing highway speed cruising comfort and interior decibel levels. My XRs have stock exhausts; I bet yours' isn't. Custom exhausts invariably result in higher interior noise levels. Some modified engines aren't always smooth running at verious rpms; that can contribute to interior bother/discomfort. Larger tires ALWAYS generate more noise, in some cases particularly on certain types of surfaces. Etc. My rides have none of those things about which there is a trade-off wiht the cost to paid in some higher level of interior noise particularly at highway speeds. In my rides, only by looking at the tach would you know or think the engine's rpms are high compared to a 5-speed.

Ed, ive alway foud it WAY easier to drive a 5spd turbo car in inclement weather compared to an auto. in an auto you(i) cant control the boost as much as in the 5spd.

That's not--in fact, it's exactly the opposite--of what I've heard and read from others who own 5-speeds. And, you don't build boost when only using modest accelerator pedal inputs (can't happen). Some guys who are really really good with slipping the clutch will be able to maneuver OK in some snowy situations. Most don't know how to, or can't, do that. In snow, the auto rules--if you know what you're doing (always a key assumption).

Also, i believe Ford put them(c3) in the XR, cause they was cheap...thats all

No, that's one part of the equation, not the only factor in it.

YMMV

[jasonty]

FYI, my 88 is one of the most factory correct cars out there. the paint just sucks and the 145hp is boring after driving my 87. :lol:

Personally the high RPM at highway speed in an auto XR pisses me off.

Only a psychoanalyst can help you. :P LOL But, lots of factors are involved and must be considered in assessing highway speed cruising comfort and interior decibel levels. My XRs have stock exhausts; I bet yours' isn't. Custom exhausts invariably result in higher interior noise levels. Some modified engines aren't always smooth running at verious rpms; that can contribute to interior bother/discomfort. Larger tires ALWAYS generate more noise, in some cases particularly on certain types of surfaces. Etc. My rides have none of those things about which there is a trade-off wiht the cost to paid in some higher level of interior noise particularly at highway speeds. In my rides, only by looking at the tach would you know or think the engine's rpms are high compared to a 5-speed.

Ed, ive alway foud it WAY easier to drive a 5spd turbo car in inclement weather compared to an auto. in an auto you(i) cant control the boost as much as in the 5spd.

That's not--in fact, it's exactly the opposite--of what I've heard and read from others who own 5-speeds. And, you don't build boost when only using modest accelerator pedal inputs (can't happen). Some guys who are really really good with slipping the clutch will be able to maneuver OK in some snowy situations. Most don't know how to, or can't, do that. In snow, the auto rules--if you know what you're doing (always a key assumption).

Also, i believe Ford put them(c3) in the XR, cause they was cheap...thats all

No, that's one part of the equation, not the only factor in it. :wink:

YMMV 8)