intercoolers--all info!!!

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turbofan
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intercoolers--all info!!!

Post by turbofan »

*IMPORTANT UPDATE* This first link is to a website that has tons of great information on bar and plate/tube and fin coolers, pros and cons, etc. Long, but VERY worthwhile read.

http://www.are.com.au/feat/techtalk/intecoolersMR.htm


Here are some links to a turbododge forum. Pay attention to the user "Turbominivan." He knows what he's talking about. View his website here: http://www.turbominivan.com

http://www.turbododge.com/forums/showth ... p?t=103873

http://www.turbododge.com/forums/showth ... p?t=105523



Alright i'm sick of searching everywhere for info on this cooler and that cooler. Let's PUT ALL THE INFO HERE so all you have to do is get this one thread and BAM! There's the intercooler information!! Ok i'll start.

AUDI 5000: Bar and Plate (IIRC). (referring to the smaller one, probably about 2 feet wide and a foot tall... ish) Dual-pass, poor design. Probably not a good way to go. Lots of pressure drop. Local junkyard has one for $25, and it's staying there.

DODGE TURBO II: Bar and Plate. Decent cooler when running lower boost, but when you turn up the boost there's LOTS of pressure drop (about 6 psi pressure drop at 25 psi boost!). Fairly inexpensive, but also fairly rare. [see pic at bottom of page]

FORD PROBE: Tube and Fin. Decent flow, can be good for packaging.. easy to mount on a merk, i would know. seems to work ok, we'll play around with other coolers too though. purchased the cooler, the stock BOV, and the hoses for $25. around $30-40 on Ebay. MAZDA MX-6 COOLER IS SIMILAR, BUT NOT THE SAME!!! YOU CANNOT MOUNT THE MX-6 IN THE SAME WAY AS THE PROBE! I spent over an hour removing an MX-6 cooler from the JY and found it's just a little different.

FORD RS COSWORTH: Very popular merk upgrade. Really thick core, very similar in design to the Porsche 944 cooler. Works well and relatively easy to install. Usually can be purchased for ~$100, but requires shorter radiator. IMO there are better options, but this is tried and true and people who have it are usually happy with it. Here's an install thread courtesy of jkxr4ti: Cosworth

FORD T-BIRD SC: Bar and Plate. jkxr4ti provided this:
Just got around to measuring my intake temps recently. Here are the results.

The max temps were taken on a third gear blast from 2500-5200 RPM.
Max temp before intercooler 280 deg. F
Max temp after the intercooler 140 deg F
Ambient temp 85 deg F
Boost 16PSI

The intercooler is a thunderbird supercoupe unit mounted horizontally below the radiator and crank pulley without any scoops.

Under normal cruise conditions it shows an average of 15 deg F above
ambient.

Stock T3 turbo, 3" exhaust, ported exhaust manifold, 16PSI with gillis valve.
Can be found cheap in JY, but hard to find.

FORD T-BIRD TC: Bar and Plate. good flowing core, actually not a bad way to go, especially if you don't top mount it. A bit too small though. Can often be bought for $25 or so. [see pic at bottom of page]

Isuzu NPR (small): Tube and Fin. Decent intercooler. nice for packaging, good interior and exterior flow, but expensive when you can get your hands on one. Thermal efficiency won't be as good as a good bar and plate because of the lack of good internal fins. Here are some pics of an installation, courtesy of merk23literturbo: NPR

Image
photo by Gus Mahon

MITSUBISHI ECLIPSE 1G: I hear it's a good-flowing unit that can often be used in a similar way as the saab 900 but flows better. Usually around $50 on Ebay, maybe less in JY. [see pic at bottom of page. one of the tubes in the pic is modified, usually comes out and up from where you can see the other hole.]

MISHIMOTO INTERCOOLERS: Bar and Plate. I have one of these on my '87. Purchased brand new for $125 shipped. Fin density is, well, NOT dense, but it seems to do a great job. the one pictured is the one I have (18X12X3) but they have several different sizes. Cheap, new, pretty, and quite good. woohoo!

Image

MITSUBISHI STARION: Tube and Fin. I hear it's a great cooler, but they're expensive (usually) and increasingly rare. I also don't think they're really all that great, but it's hard to say. there's one for sale in the classifieds. $125 for this one, but prices vary. Friend recently bought one for $65 shipped from Ebay, will post results.

Image
Photo by... some kid in Ohio... :?

PACE PRODUCTS RS500: Info provided by Chris Anglin:
core type:
tube and fin

core dimensions (not including endtanks):
width: 21.5"
height: 16"
thickness: 1.5"
wetted area (w*h) = 344 in²

plate or tube dimensions:
gap between plate/tube: 0.3125" (5/16")
width of plate/tube: 0.1875" (3/16")

fin density: approximately 9 fins per inch

tubing/plumbing info: N/A

weight: 9.5 lbs

other details:
inlet and outlet tubes on IC core ar 3" OD, but the manufacturer has 2.5" OD inlet and outlets available.
Image

PORSCHE 944: Bar and Plate. Good cooler. REALLY thick, but expensive and hard to find.

RAPIDO XR INTERCOOLER: (see page 9 for this discussion) Excellent for the not-so-do-it-yourselfer. Bolt on, decent core, and you get to keep your A/C and everything. However... expensive. Price forthcoming.
Info provided by Chris Anglin:
The Rapido IC is bar and plate and the core measures 12" wide, 7" tall and 3.5" deep. The core has 0.25" gaps between the plates and the plates are .25" wide. The external fin density is about 11 fins per inch. The core and endtank assembly (nothing else) weighs 10 lbs. The tubing from the turbo outlet elbow to inlet side of the intercooler is 33" and the tubing from the oulet side of the intercooler to the throttle body is 48" (that's 6.75 feet!!!). The tubing is 2.25" OD. The endtanks are cast.

Let me put this in a more concise format.

core type:
bar and plate

core dimensions (not including endtanks):
width: 12"
height: 7"
thickness: 3.5"
wetted area (w*h) = 84 in²

plate or tube dimensions:
gap between plate/tube: 0.25"
width of plate/tube: 0.25"

fin density: approximately 11 fins per inch

tubing/plumbing info:
inlet length: 33"
outlet length: 48"
OD: 2.25"

weight: 10 lbs

other details:
end tanks are cast

SAAB 900: Bar and Plate. Approx. 11" X 14". Also dual pass, but much better design than Audi cooler. nice for packaging since inlet and outlet pipes are on the same end, pointed in the same direction. The best 900 intercoolers were the '89 and later coolers, they had much better flow than the earlier ones. It seems to me that the major limitation in the design is the TEENY bottom tank. there's not enough room for the air to turn around and flow back through the core. The all-aluminum ones are not great because of their tiny passages.
The better-flowing later ones will go for around $40 on Ebay, maybe less from a JY. Here is an installation walkthrough courtesy of merk23literturbo: Saab intercooler installation

SAAB 9000: Tube and Fin. Not a great flowing cooler. it's huge, but there's tons of pressure drop. Go for around $50, maybe less from JY. [see pic at bottom of page]

SSAUTOCHROME RS500: HUGE cooler, not the best end tank design, but should do an excellent job. somewhat expensive, about $250 on eBay, but when coupled with there radiators it seems like an excellent combination. However, the quality of this company (along with Mishimoto) is somewhat inconsistent, hence the nickname "SSAutoCrap."
Image
Matching Radiator:
Image

SUBARU WRX: Tube and Fin. I understand it's a decent core, but with poorly designed end tanks. I'm working on figuring out how to mount one, but i'm probably not going to go through with it. It's relatively large for a factory cooler. Can be bought for about $65, wonder if it's worth the extra cost.

SPEARCO: (model shown below, bar and plate) Excellent intercooler, though exterior flow isn't super. Great interior flow. Spearco coolers seem to be some of the best--and their prices reflect that, new or used. [see pic at bottom of page]

TOYOTA SUPRA: Denso Tube and Fin. Good intercooler. convenient for packaging and great interior and exterior flow. Ugly as sin though... Also fairly expensive, go for $70 and up on ebay.

Image
photo by Gus Mahon

VOLVO: Tube and Fin. this is about the volvo cooler that looks just like the saab 9000 one. i understand it has the same saab 9000 problem, but is a little bit better than the saab cooler. [see pic at bottom of page]

CUSTOM TRIPLE CORE MOPAR: This is an intercooler made out of 3 of the above-mentioned dodge mopar cores. This was crafted by Tom Hair located in Payson, Utah, and belongs to Mr. Turbominivan. Notice the end tanks designed to use ALL the core. This should be an EXCELLENT performing intercooler.

Image

Big main intercooler pic:
Image
photo by Gus Mahon

Come on guys, let's make this list into a wealth of cooler info, shall we?!?!

EDIT: added info, will continue to do so. Now in alphabetical order by manufacturer!!
Last edited by turbofan on Thu Dec 01, 2011 12:55 am, edited 16 times in total.
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Post by jkxr4ti »

Posted from a previous thread:

Just got around to measuring my intake temps recently. Here are the results.

The max temps were taken on a third gear blast from 2500-5200 RPM.
Max temp before intercooler 280 deg. F
Max temp after the intercooler 140 deg F
Ambient temp 85 deg F
Boost 16PSI

The intercooler is a thunderbird supercoupe unit mounted horizontally below the radiator and crank pulley.

Under normal cruise conditions it shows an average of 15 deg F above
ambient.

Stock T3 turbo, 3" exhaust, ported exhaust manifold, 16PSI with gillis valve.
Merkur....Its German for Mutt....Mustang, Saab, Volvo, Lincoln, Contour, Cummins... and the list goes on.

Jeremy Kemp

1988 XR4Ti Chestnut Brown/Spice Leather
MC2 Coilovers and Bushings, Contour Rims and Rotors, Ported Motorsport Head, Cosworth 4x4 Intercooler, Holset HY35 Turbo, 80LB Injectors, Megasquirt2 EFI
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Post by MerkXRTurbo »

The supercoupe IC is one of the best OEM ICs, IMO. It's a nice bar/plate unit with metal end tanks and 2.5" inlet/outlet.
3" mandrel bent exhaust, Ported/Polished head, 1.89/1.57 valves, Gutted uppper/Knife edge lower intake, T3/T4, LA3, Big VAM, Cold air intake, 40bob header, Gillis valve, Forge BOV, Mustang SVO T5, Conquest intercooler, 20psi.
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Post by turbofan »

hehe so if i can get one for $25, i should, is that what you're saying? :lol:
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Post by KingpinCEO »

i had a thunderbird turbo coupe intercooler...

then i sold it on ebay for like 20 dollars.. but i beat the buyer in the head for shipping.. 8)
1985 Merkur XR4Ti - 2.5 ranger block greyhound bus turbo
1988 Mercedes Benz 190e - awaiting airbag suspension
2005 Dodge Magnum - 336,000 Mile Daily driver
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Post by DPDISXR4Ti »

We're happy for you Kingpin :roll:

Mind if I take issue with the suggestion that the all-AL Saab 900 isn't any good??? :)
Last edited by DPDISXR4Ti on Sun Jan 01, 2006 4:42 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Post by xrian »

Now there's something to be real proud of :roll: :roll:
KingpinCEO wrote:i had a thunderbird turbo coupe intercooler...

then i sold it on ebay for like 20 dollars.. but i beat the buyer in the head for shipping.. 8)
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Post by turbofan »

DPDISXR4Ti wrote:We're happy for you Kingpin :roll:

Mind if I take issue with the suggestion that the all-ALL Saab 900 isn't any good??? :)
what do you mean? do you mean you'd like to argue that they're not any good at all, or you'd like to argue that some are good? cuz... i said that some ARE good, or at least decent...

i bought a probe and supercoupe. the SC is gonna be a pain cuz of how the end tanks are, they're meant to work ONLY with the SC tubing. i think i'm gonna end up mounting the probe. we'll see, i'm gonna get some testing done on the SC, the probe, and the WRX. i'll post it when i get it.

anyone else have any good info on coolers? i'm going to add the info from Don Haulsee's intercooler primer and Gus Mahon's intercooler section as soon as i get a chance. i want ONE resource for this info.
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Post by jkxr4ti »

Heres what i did to mate the 2.5" tubing to the SC intercooler, its not really that bad.

For the tubing meeting the intercooler I used 2 1/2" tubing. I went to an exhaust shop and had them flare a bell at the end, then used a standard 2 1/2" oval exhaust flange slid over the tubing to hold it together. The flange clamps the tubing to the inercooler with the existing bolt locations. I also made a couple gaskets to go between the tubing and the cooler.
Merkur....Its German for Mutt....Mustang, Saab, Volvo, Lincoln, Contour, Cummins... and the list goes on.

Jeremy Kemp

1988 XR4Ti Chestnut Brown/Spice Leather
MC2 Coilovers and Bushings, Contour Rims and Rotors, Ported Motorsport Head, Cosworth 4x4 Intercooler, Holset HY35 Turbo, 80LB Injectors, Megasquirt2 EFI
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Post by turbofan »

jkxr4ti wrote:Heres what i did to mate the 2.5" tubing to the SC intercooler, its not really that bad.

For the tubing meeting the intercooler I used 2 1/2" tubing. I went to an exhaust shop and had them flare a bell at the end, then used a standard 2 1/2" oval exhaust flange slid over the tubing to hold it together. The flange clamps the tubing to the inercooler with the existing bolt locations. I also made a couple gaskets to go between the tubing and the cooler.
so wait a minute... you have it mounted flat rather than upright? do you have a scoop or anything?
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Post by jkxr4ti »

Yes its mounted flat, and no scoop was used. I was going to reinstall a rubber strip on the crossmember again but i never got around to it. I modeled my install after Dimitri's setup in his first 2.3 scorpio. Pics are over on the Merkur Tech picture pages. As you can see this is by far not the best mounting location and the Supercoupe intercooler does a great job of cooling the charge air.
Merkur....Its German for Mutt....Mustang, Saab, Volvo, Lincoln, Contour, Cummins... and the list goes on.

Jeremy Kemp

1988 XR4Ti Chestnut Brown/Spice Leather
MC2 Coilovers and Bushings, Contour Rims and Rotors, Ported Motorsport Head, Cosworth 4x4 Intercooler, Holset HY35 Turbo, 80LB Injectors, Megasquirt2 EFI
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Post by DPDISXR4Ti »

The thing I don't like so much about the "behind and below the radiator" location, is the fact that the air-flow goes through the radiator and then down through the IC, so it's never getting cooled with ambient temp air. Still, given the size and efficiency of the SC IC, you could stick it just about anywhere and it would do a good job for most of us. I have one in my stash, along with some of the cast AL pipes fom the stock SC application - maybe some day I'll actually use it.
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Post by got_xr? »

i just picked up a large npr for 90$... i'm gonna stick it infront of the rad....hopfully it can fit with out me buying a new rad... i figure if i dropt he rad a coupel inchs if not i'll find a jy ranger rad to fit between the endtanks
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Post by turbofan »

got_xr? wrote:i just picked up a large npr for 90$... i'm gonna stick it infront of the rad....hopfully it can fit with out me buying a new rad... i figure if i dropt he rad a coupel inchs if not i'll find a jy ranger rad to fit between the endtanks
i just re-mounted my probe cooler above the rad. i took some aluminum and made a couple small blocks/spacers and got longer mounting bolts to drop the rad a bit, then i cut some copper tubing and used it to extend the top pins to hold the rad in place. i'll take some pics, but it wasn't bad and left plenty of space for tubing above the rad.
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