Use XR4Ti struts on a Scorpio?

Scorpio / Scorpio Cosworth Discussions - Questions, problem resolution, general talk, technical tips and modifications.
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brokencase
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Use XR4Ti struts on a Scorpio?

Post by brokencase » Sun Mar 19, 2017 1:51 pm

I was looking at this on Craigslist...

https://sfbay.craigslist.org/sby/cto/6040191409.html

If you read the ad, the seller mentions the following...

"It needs new struts. This would be an issue if you were searching for Scorpio-specific items, but you don't have to. I have sleeve inserts for the front spindles so you can drop in any Merkur XR4Ti strut (abundantly available). If you want to replace the rears, you can use mid-90's Ford Explorer rear shocks; just put a couple washers to shim on either side at the pick-up point on the trailing arms."

Has anyone ever heard of doing this? Any details as to what the sleeves look like?
This would greatly simplify my strut quest on my Scorpio. Have metal lathe and could make the sleeves.

I've emailed the seller to see if I can get more details.

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Re: Use XR4Ti struts on a Scorpio?

Post by merkurdriver » Sun Mar 19, 2017 2:22 pm

Image

XR guys use the adapter so they can install Scorpio front knuckles onto XR struts.

Pyropete sells them : http://www.ebay.com/itm/FORD-MERKUR-Xr4 ... 7m&vxp=mtr

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Re: Use XR4Ti struts on a Scorpio?

Post by Ed Lijewski » Sun Mar 19, 2017 2:56 pm

What about the weight differences-~400 LBS-between XR and Scorpio?
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Re: Use XR4Ti struts on a Scorpio?

Post by brokencase » Sun Mar 19, 2017 8:47 pm

So it looks like it is more targeted for the XR4ti than for usage on the Scorpio.
$85 is not unreasonable. But when I do the math I think I am better off ordering
Scorpio struts from Europe.

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Re: Use XR4Ti struts on a Scorpio?

Post by ford.scorpio » Tue Mar 21, 2017 3:00 pm

Windshield for $225 installed? Keep dreaming.......
A man meets another addict and says "oh yeah, I have a Merkur too!" and the other man says "no way!!!!! ............how many?"

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Re: Use XR4Ti struts on a Scorpio?

Post by DPDISXR4Ti » Fri Mar 31, 2017 9:40 pm

brokencase wrote:I was looking at this on Craigslist...

https://sfbay.craigslist.org/sby/cto/6040191409.html

If you read the ad, the seller mentions the following...

"It needs new struts. This would be an issue if you were searching for Scorpio-specific items, but you don't have to. I have sleeve inserts for the front spindles so you can drop in any Merkur XR4Ti strut (abundantly available). If you want to replace the rears, you can use mid-90's Ford Explorer rear shocks; just put a couple washers to shim on either side at the pick-up point on the trailing arms."

Has anyone ever heard of doing this?
Yes. I'm the one who sold John the sleeves and told him about the Explorer shocks. Small damn Merkur world.... :lol:
Brad

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Re: Use XR4Ti struts on a Scorpio?

Post by john keefe » Thu Jun 08, 2017 3:02 am

ford.scorpio wrote:Windshield for $225 installed? Keep dreaming.......
Yep, I'm the one with the ad. Actually, found a glass company out here which just did my '87 XR in bronze. $225 for the glass and install. They did a great job. Have a cracked window in the Scorpio, and the guy sourced 2 bronze Scorpio's in No.Cal. Wanted the same $225, + $35 for a replacement seal strip, if needed. That's still $225 in my book.

My Boss said, "No, you need to finish the Master Bathroom before you can play with any more of your toys." Catch-22 if you're a full-time G.C. doing other people's remodels. The cobbler's kids have no shoes.

Believe it or don't on the glass. Just because guys have been hoarding windshields & parts for years, and are now putting them on eBay at a big markup for the years of "storage," doesn't mean you can't get them elsewhere for less.

Cheers
Last edited by john keefe on Sun Jun 11, 2017 2:35 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Use XR4Ti struts on a Scorpio?

Post by john keefe » Thu Jun 08, 2017 1:44 pm

Ed Lijewski wrote:What about the weight differences-~400 LBS-between XR and Scorpio?
Actually not a lot of difference, or not much than any strut couldn't handle.

Scorpio only weighs 320lbs more than an XR, total. So, calculating,

Scorpio = 3241lbs, weight dist @ 52/48, so front weight = 1685.32lbs/2 = 842.66 lbs/ front wheel.

XR = 2921lbs, weight dist @ 53/47, so front weight = 1548.13lbs/2 = 774.07lbs /FW. Delta = + 68.95lbs more loading Scorpio front wheel vs. XR.

I'd think any decent strut can handle 70lbs more loading. Like adding groceries from Costco... Especially if its even a minor upgraded XR strut over stock (e.g., KYB). Plus, the ride's distributed over a 6" longer wheelbase, and a 1" wider front track, so you're likely not going to feel a whole lot of difference from weight-transfer dynamics.

John

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Re: Use XR4Ti struts on a Scorpio?

Post by DPDISXR4Ti » Fri Jun 09, 2017 1:17 pm

Anyone know what the difference in stock strut length is between the XR and Scorpio?
Brad

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Re: Use XR4Ti struts on a Scorpio?

Post by brokencase » Tue Jun 13, 2017 6:15 pm

I am now leaning towards the 2004 VW Jetta strut substitution. Known working on XR4ti and should be able to adapt to Scorpio. Opens up a broader range of choices.

A little sheet metal shimming at the clamp and you drill out the strut mount hole a little larger and use the VW strut bearing.

I have not done this but I plan too later this year.

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Re: Use XR4Ti struts on a Scorpio?

Post by john keefe » Mon Jun 19, 2017 12:44 pm

UPDATE:

So, the DG strut inserts worked perfectly! Thanks Brad! I had WD40'd the strut/hub receiver to help with removing the stock struts, so I used this to polish the hub receiver interior with light emory cloth, and wiped clean. Then, because the adapter is AL, I liberally greased the hub receiver and inside/outside of the adapter with anti-sieze. Basically, the new XR strut went in fairly easily.

Couple of hints if you're doing this conversion, which I hadn't found mentioned anywhere else...

First, the Scorpio plunge shaft is a slightly bigger diameter than for an XR, with the end below the thread roots machined down a bit. The spring cup sits in the recess, and stops at the step-up on the shaft. This recess (and the hole in the cup) is larger than the plunge shaft for an XR strut, so I installed a Grade-8 x 7/16" washer under the cup. Hardened would be better, but it was all I had on short notice, and enough.

Secondly, as you can see from the pic earlier in this thread, the adapter has a lip on top to rest on the hub. This raises the strut up about 3/16", thus the pinch hole in the XR stabilizer/flange will not line up with the pinch hole on the hub.

It was late, and I didn't want to pull the strut, so I drilled through the stabilizer through the front side (non-threaded) of the pinch hole. Then, I tapped the threaded end of the hub all the through from the back of the hub, just in case the drill bit dinged the starting thread on the backside of the hole. Might have been easier to just hog out the stabilizer with the strut out of the car, after guessing how much and where, but didn't occur to me that might be an issue before assembly.

Thirdly, the Scorpio strut has a bracket for securing the ABS & Brake sensor wires; plain to see in any pic of the strut. Its just angled flat-stock with circular cutouts. It has a small bead weld on the fin/stabilizer flange welded to the strut body, so its not actually on the strut body itself. I cut the bead with an angle grinder, and tack-welded it onto the XR strut in the same location. As its on the flange, you won't heat up the strut body or cause any other damage by tack-welding, especially if you spray some cooling gel around the weld area first. It'll make sense when you see it. Just make sure you get it welded onto the XR strut in the exact same location as stock, or you won't have a lot of wiggle room to secure the ABS wire.


Also, a couple guys off Craigslist had asked me to mic all the dimensions of the DG adapter so they could machine their own. Ordinarily, I'd readily help with the request. But, ethically, its DG's product, and its not my place to provide that information when he's the one producing it. My suggestion was to contact DG to see if he was OK with it. Yeah, I know people copy stuff all the time once they have a product in hand, and they call it "competition," but I've had that done to a couple things I engineered, and I don't appreciate it. It ain't really rocket science, though. If you can mic a Scorpio and an XR strut base, and correctly allow a couple thou for tolerance, you can make your own.

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Re: Use XR4Ti struts on a Scorpio?

Post by Ed Lijewski » Mon Jun 19, 2017 4:58 pm

Just wondering if a sleeve could be made out of PVC pipe...

YMMV
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Re: Use XR4Ti struts on a Scorpio?

Post by john keefe » Thu Jun 22, 2017 3:46 am

Ed, mechanically, if you can find the right diameter PVC pipe, and wall thickness, or hog it out to the correct inside diameter, it might work for a while. I'd guess only a short while, though. PVC has decent compressibility qualities, but it will shear, gall and crack, or just generally deteriorate (become brittle) over time. That's what you don't want because you're relying on the adapter to also prevent the strut from twisting inside the hub when you turn.

I know it seems like it wouldn't twist/shear/gall if the pinch-bolt is clamping it all together, but I wouldn't trust it. I'd say a little experiment wouldn't hurt on a few twisty miles and check results, but for only an experiment, its a PITA to take off the Scorpio tower mounting hardware if you're doing your own spring swaps. If it doesn't work, then you go for an AL adapter anyway.

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