Conversion from Clutch-based Mechanical Fan to Electric

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Ed Lijewski
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Re: Conversion from Clutch-based Mechanical Fan to Electric

Post by Ed Lijewski » Thu Nov 29, 2018 8:36 pm

Not skeered of shipping an alternator from say GB to here. Shipping for two front struts and two rear shocks (~35 lbs.) via UPS cost me ~$60; a single alternator shipped wouldn't weigh more and very like less. So, yes; it if mounts on the 2.9v6 we got, it ships.

YMMV
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Re: Conversion from Clutch-based Mechanical Fan to Electric

Post by brokencase » Sat Dec 01, 2018 5:27 pm

You still end up having to change the pulley...and who knows what else?

IMHO, It makes sense to look for an easy Japanese alternative.

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Re: Conversion from Clutch-based Mechanical Fan to Electric

Post by dimswits » Mon Dec 03, 2018 5:45 pm

Ed Lijewski wrote:
Mon Nov 26, 2018 6:25 pm
Electric fans will draw amps. I've observed in both 88 and 89 fan clutched Scorpios that the electrical system just doesn't produce voltage at the battery as does the XR. On my XRs running with headlights and blower on high I consistently get voltage no lower than in mid 13s (14.4 with headlights and blower off) readings. Not so with the 88 and 89 Scorpios IME, where under the same current draws readings at idle are closer to 13.0 and occasionally a few points below that. And in each Scorpio the alternators/VRs were new remanned units, and in each the batteries were brand new and fully charged, and battery and accessory cable connections clean and in good condition.
Where was your test point for these readings?
Dimitri in NYC
88 Scorpio 2.5 Turbo
89 Scorpio 4.6 DOHC
02 E46 330Ci
17 MKC

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Bob Weir
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Re: Conversion from Clutch-based Mechanical Fan to Electric

Post by Bob Weir » Mon Dec 03, 2018 6:19 pm

ALTERNATORS
Maybe we should
1] visit alternator rebuilders for alternative alternators
2] ask the Ranger forums what alternate [higher amp] alternators they are using


Brad - WATER HOSES
My best reference source is the BAT catalog for the different configurations,
Good luck finding the water hose behind the AC compressor [different inne & oute ends],
Water hose at oil filter - I cut off the bend in the copper pipe [from front] and replaced "J" shaped hose with straight generic hose.
viewtopic.php?f=29&t=24916&p=233732&hil ... se#p233732

brokencase
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Re: Conversion from Clutch-based Mechanical Fan to Electric

Post by brokencase » Mon Dec 03, 2018 9:34 pm

No luck on the Ranger front, it's mounting is different than that of the Scorpio.

All that you, I, or an alternator rebuilder can do is look at the various other alternators and try to find something close - mounting wise.

I really think the Pathfinder alternator is the way to go. There is a used one up on ebay right now for $42.50 130 amp
It even has the original connectors attached. It is perfect for the experiment.

I'm just having a hard time finding a definitive wiring diagram for the three terminal connector.
I am pretty sure one is "Sense", the other is "IGN on" and the other is "ALT Lamp". I just don't know the order.

The Sense wire just goes right up to the battery plus terminal, and is separate from the big wire that goes to the same place
IGN on - switched power from ignition switch
ALT lamp - I THINK will work with the stock Scorpio lamp.

Of course there is also the big stud for the big wire that goes up to the battery.

Incidentally, the lack of a separate "sense" wire is probably a contributor to the poor performance of the Scorpio stock alternator setup.
Pretty sure most modern alternators have this. It allows the alternator regulator to monitor the voltage right at the battery independent of the loads occurring through the big wire. In other words, very little current flows through this wire, it is voltage monitoring only.

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Re: Conversion from Clutch-based Mechanical Fan to Electric

Post by brokencase » Mon Dec 03, 2018 10:26 pm

Here we go...I think the link below shows the right pinout. The Pathfinder is the same as the one in the middle.

http://wilbo666.pbworks.com/w/page/3944 ... lternators

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Re: Conversion from Clutch-based Mechanical Fan to Electric

Post by brokencase » Mon Dec 03, 2018 10:46 pm


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DPDISXR4Ti
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Re: Conversion from Clutch-based Mechanical Fan to Electric

Post by DPDISXR4Ti » Mon Dec 03, 2018 11:34 pm

brokencase wrote:
Mon Dec 03, 2018 10:26 pm
Here we go...I think the link below shows the right pinout. The Pathfinder is the same as the one in the middle.

http://wilbo666.pbworks.com/w/page/3944 ... lternators
Nice job on the research. What's the year range on the Pathfinder?
Brad

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Re: Conversion from Clutch-based Mechanical Fan to Electric

Post by brokencase » Wed Dec 05, 2018 11:25 pm

Well, the 05-07's look similar to the earlier '04 units. Don't think the mounting is much different.

As far as the research goes, this ain't my first Rodeo... I converted my 59' Sprite to a 92' Honda Prelude Alternator several years ago.
I had to convert this alternator to a "V" style pulley as well. I ended up going to this great auto electric rebuilder near me that is now long gone. I told him what I was doing and he was enthusiastic. Pointed me to his big bucket of pulleys and said to take whatever I needed...

Image

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andyofcolumbusmerkur
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Re: Conversion from Clutch-based Mechanical Fan to Electric

Post by andyofcolumbusmerkur » Thu Dec 06, 2018 6:39 pm

How about alternators from the car audio world? Like the mechman units. You don't need 320 amps but you could get a smaller one.
https://www.mechman.com/alternators/aft ... lternator/
You can barbecue it, boil it, broil it, bake it, saute it. There's shrimp kabobs, shrimp creole, shrimp gumbo, pan fried, deep fried, stir fried, pineapple shrimp, lemon shrimp, coconut shrimp, pepper shrimp, shrimp soup, shrimp stew, shrimp salad, shrimp in potatoes, shrimp burger, shrimp sandwich....

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Re: Conversion from Clutch-based Mechanical Fan to Electric

Post by brokencase » Thu Dec 06, 2018 9:51 pm

Yea, and only $499! Look, We are not looking for crazy power, just "adequate" power. The idea is an easy conversion to a modern alternator for the Scorpio on the cheap..

I did a little more research. Found some dimensions of the Pathfinder Alternator (and some for the stock Bosch unit)
It looks like a nice fit.

So here it the dimensions of the 130 amp Pathfinder alternator...
Image

And here are some of he dimensions of the Bosch 90 amp...
Image

The important conclusions...
The space between the brackets is close enough. The Pathfinder alternator is 80.5mm and the Scorpio it is 82mm, but as you can see the steel sleeve on the one mount lobe of the Pathfinder protrudes quite a bit. It can be pressed in or trimmed back to match the distance of the Bosch unit.

Diameter wise, the pathfinder is only a little smaller. No need to worry about the bolt hole diameters, you can work around those with sleeves and spacers slid over the main mounting bolt as required.

I'm really starting to like what I see in this swap. I also did some rough measurements estimates from the images, I think the Pathfinder shaft is about 14 mm diameter. Should be no problem adapting the Bosch pulley over.

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Bob Weir
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Re: Conversion from Clutch-based Mechanical Fan to Electric

Post by Bob Weir » Fri Dec 07, 2018 2:35 am


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andyofcolumbusmerkur
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Re: Conversion from Clutch-based Mechanical Fan to Electric

Post by andyofcolumbusmerkur » Fri Dec 07, 2018 2:18 pm

Does the Nissan Pathfinder use an electrical load detector in the charging system like some other Japanese manufacturers? You may need to do some fancy wiring complete with diodes and resistors to install some modern alternators. What about a powermaster universal like this one?
https://www.summitracing.com/search?Sor ... =713-17519
You can barbecue it, boil it, broil it, bake it, saute it. There's shrimp kabobs, shrimp creole, shrimp gumbo, pan fried, deep fried, stir fried, pineapple shrimp, lemon shrimp, coconut shrimp, pepper shrimp, shrimp soup, shrimp stew, shrimp salad, shrimp in potatoes, shrimp burger, shrimp sandwich....

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DPDISXR4Ti
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Re: Conversion from Clutch-based Mechanical Fan to Electric

Post by DPDISXR4Ti » Fri Dec 07, 2018 2:19 pm

Bob Weir wrote:
Fri Dec 07, 2018 2:35 am
You might find good info in the RangerStation forum

https://therangerstation.com/tech_libra ... tall.shtml

https://therangerstation.com/tech_libra ... swap.shtml
Unless you want to go changing brackets AND upgrading to Micro-V pulleys, the parts for the North American Cologne V6 won't work with our Euro brackets.

The Pathfinder alternator looks promising. Are both (Nissan and Bosch) shaft diameters 14mm?
Brad

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Re: Conversion from Clutch-based Mechanical Fan to Electric

Post by brokencase » Fri Dec 07, 2018 8:28 pm

Not sure about the shaft diameter on the Bosch.

As far as wiring goes, It looks like the 2005-07 alternators have the computer interface "C"
S is sense. L is lamp. Large stud is the big wire to the battery. A ground strap can be connected to either of the two threaded holes on the back.

The 2004 and earlier alternators are the same form factor but have the more conventional connection. of IGN, S, L

Some sources say the the C input just allows the computer to shut down the alternator by grounding "C" to save fuel under algorithm control by the engine control. Others say it is a more active PWM signal.

So the earlier alternator might be a safer bet.

The connector is available on ebay.

This is the pinout I have found for the 2005-2007 alternators
Image

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