Turn signal/hazard switch

[PeterP11c]

Given the endemic shortage of spare parts for Scorpio, I decided to buy and replace my original 34 year old turn signal/hazard lights switch. It was advertised on Ebay as brand new, so I got it followed by an OEM new relay. It all sounded nice and easy until the installation time. Scorpio electrical plugs and switches are quite notorious for tight fit. Patiently, I managed that. Upon install, the new switch began making scratching noises when hazard light was activated. So, I changed the relay. This time, I got fast chirping sounds and lamp on but no steady blinking. Reversed to the old switch and right turn signal stopped working. Darn. Again, dismantled it all and put my old relay combined with the new switch. This time, I got turn signal working and hazard lamp on with fast chirping sounds coming from the relay. No blinkers on. So, I hit the wall. Cannot return the switch because my old one stopped working on turn signal function. The relay is not a problem, shipping cost back would exceed the price I paid. Finally, I checked the electrical shop manual. The only part I did not replace is #12 breaker, but figured if burnt out I would get no response from hazard button at all. There is something shorting the hazard light. Hard to believe that a new switch would malfunction right from the start, unless they sold me a defective one to begin with. Any ideas?
Thank you.
Peter P11c

[my8950]

Any ideas?
Thank you.
Peter P11c

Find another relay just like #12 and trade it, see if you have the same issue.

[PeterP11c]

Tested on two relays already. Same effect. Sound coming from relay as fast staccato, hazard light is on continuously, no blinkers.

[Ed Lijewski]

Possible turn signal bulb defective (in some odd way...). I'd remove them sequentially while testing the hazard function after each removal.

YMMV

[my8950]

Possible turn signal bulb defective (in some odd way...). I'd remove them sequentially while testing the hazard function after each removal.

YMMV

Or maybe the switch not connected all the way to the connector, leaving one bulb open.

[PeterP11c]

Considered that as well. There are two connectors, one main for the turn signal and lights and second for hazard only. Pushed in all the way until safety latches clicked. Funny thing is, turn signal lamps work OK, so the bulbs are fine. Push/pull switch function to change between high and low beam works OK as well. Only, when I push red button on hazard it all goes berserk.

[my8950]

Considered that as well. There are two connectors, one main for the turn signal and lights and second for hazard only. Pushed in all the way until safety latches clicked. Funny thing is, turn signal lamps work OK, so the bulbs are fine. Push/pull switch function to change between high and low beam works OK as well. Only, when I push red button on hazard it all goes berserk.

I have another one if you are interested to try.

[my8950]

I was out in the garage last night cleaning, I noticed the stalk also has a relay on it, did you try a different relay in that location? Or, is that your position 12 relay mentioned earlier?

[PeterP11c]

I am not sure what you mean by the word "stalk". If you refer to the turn signal/hazard lamp switch, then indeed there is one black relay attached to the back of the switch. In the main fuse/relay box inside the engine compartment, there is only one fuse, # 12 which protects the hazard lamp circuit. There are no other relays or fuses in either main fuse panel or the auxiliary panel. I already have tested one switch and one relay branded as "new" in addition to my OEM parts. Similar results, same problem.

[Ed Lijewski]

FWIW, I would still remove each turn signal bulb sequentially and observe hazard function. I've seen bulbs with filaments that strangely caused weird issues but which went away when new bulb(s) were installed.

YMMV

[PeterP11c]

I don't mind trying this procedure as I ran out of possible causes. One thing though, if a bulb is defective, then it would act up on regular turn signal function as well. Both hazard lights and turn signal use the same lamps, so it all seems a bit strange. But as Scorpio goes, there are many incongruities.

[Ed Lijewski]

Your thought above indicates to me you've not (yet...) encountered a malfunction traced to a bulb anomaly.

Sequentially removing each bulb and then observing hazard lights system function might point to an issue in one corner's wiring if not a bulb malfunction.

You did ask for any thoughts. So there.

YMMV

[brokencase]

Not sure this helps..

The flashing relay works by electric current drawn by the load (lights) heating a bi-metallic strip inside the relay.
How fast the bi-metallic heats up determines the blinking rate.

So if you hear the relay clicking fast then it means the current draw is higher than normal.
It can click so fast such that the lights appear to be on continually.

Could be caused by a short somewhere.

Looking at page 66 and 142 of the EVTM it looks pretty simple.

I would put together a wire with an inline 2 amp fuse. I would then jump across the connector from power to "R BK/W" and then to "R BK/GRN"
to see if you can force the turn signal lights on each side ON continually. Have an assistant look outside the car and you make sure the left/right indicators on the dash work ok.

If that works without blowing the inline fuse then you know there is nothing wrong with the lights and the wiring going to them.

If the lights check out OK then it means there is something wrong with the switch or relay.

[PeterP11c]

Concur on all accounts. Previously, my OEM switch worked sort of OK on hazard lights if I continuously kept the red button slightly pushed downwards (silly but it worked). When first installed the new switch it wouldn't activate the hazard lights at all. After I put in the new relay to the new switch I was surprised by gurgling sounds coming from the new relay (weird). So, I took it out and reinstalled my OEM relay. This time no funny sounds but instead got fast blinking mode. Again took all out and put back my OEM switch and relay. Surprise! Right turn signal lights stopped working. Analyzed my options with both switches and relays. Figured it was safer to keep new switch "sans" hazard lights, then to keep the old switch that already showed signs of breaking down. The frustrating thing is I just cannot go to a dealer and swap it all for a fully operational unit. And so the story goes..........

[andyofcolumbusmerkur]

Not sure this helps..

The flashing relay works by electric current drawn by the load (lights) heating a bi-metallic strip inside the relay.
How fast the bi-metallic heats up determines the blinking rate.

So if you hear the relay clicking fast then it means the current draw is higher than normal.
It can click so fast such that the lights appear to be on continually.

Could be caused by a short somewhere.

Looking at page 66 and 142 of the EVTM it looks pretty simple.

I would put together a wire with an inline 2 amp fuse. I would then jump across the connector from power to "R BK/W" and then to "R BK/GRN"
to see if you can force the turn signal lights on each side ON continually. Have an assistant look outside the car and you make sure the left/right indicators on the dash work ok.

If that works without blowing the inline fuse then you know there is nothing wrong with the lights and the wiring going to them.

If the lights check out OK then it means there is something wrong with the switch or relay.

Great idea. I always wondered why one side clicked faster than the other side now I know.