Day dreaming about a 4.0L in a Scorpio
Day dreaming about a 4.0L in a Scorpio
From time to time I do a little research on the whole 4.0L into a Scorpio dream. I found this out the other day:
Ford 2.9L Distributor
Ford 4.0L Camshaft Position sensor
The perspective isn't the same, but to me, it looks the same on the bottom end.
My crazy dream has been to drop a 4.0L in the Scorpio and make it look like the 2.9L install. Spark management was a big issue with the 4.0L not having a distributor, but this looks like that problem could be fixed.
I think the main issue is that I recall someone saying the 4.0L is taller and probably wouldn't fit under the hood.
Anyway, that is my random thought of the day.
Ford 2.9L Distributor
Ford 4.0L Camshaft Position sensor
The perspective isn't the same, but to me, it looks the same on the bottom end.
My crazy dream has been to drop a 4.0L in the Scorpio and make it look like the 2.9L install. Spark management was a big issue with the 4.0L not having a distributor, but this looks like that problem could be fixed.
I think the main issue is that I recall someone saying the 4.0L is taller and probably wouldn't fit under the hood.
Anyway, that is my random thought of the day.
Darren Needham
Andover, Ks.
Andover, Ks.
Re: Day dreaming about a 4.0L in a Scorpio
I think you might be onto something
89 RS Scorpio for sale
http://www.cardomain.com/ride/3939013/1 ... ur-scorpio
http://www.cardomain.com/ride/3939013/1 ... ur-scorpio
- milehighXR
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Re: Day dreaming about a 4.0L in a Scorpio
I've got a rebuildable 4.0l, with bell for A4LD for $300.00. Motor has all sensors I believe, but I have seen a bronco 2 with a 4.0l running on 2.9l EEC...
Johnny
1 86 XR aka Naomi- my first love, now daily driven project
DCLXVI
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Re: Day dreaming about a 4.0L in a Scorpio
I hope you guys thinking about 4.0 SOHC not 4.0 OHV.
- milehighXR
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Re: Day dreaming about a 4.0L in a Scorpio
OHV
Johnny
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Re: Day dreaming about a 4.0L in a Scorpio
I know the 4.0 swap has been done a couple times - pretty sure one of them was put into a XR rather than a Scorpio. I'm not sure if they were the OHC or OHV versions of the engine - I'm thinking OHV but that's just a guess.
It's something that has been discussed in here before - might be worth a search. Here, I saved you some effort... viewtopic.php?t=10881&highlight=cologne
On the subject of the 4.0 cam sensor, I believe that was used only with the EDIS implementations, and so practically speaking, you'd need to use the engine management from the donor 4.0 to use that. If you want to use the stock Scorpio PCM, you'd want to stick with the factory disty and electronics. Basically, you'd just be swapping in the 4.0 long block.
It's something that has been discussed in here before - might be worth a search. Here, I saved you some effort... viewtopic.php?t=10881&highlight=cologne
On the subject of the 4.0 cam sensor, I believe that was used only with the EDIS implementations, and so practically speaking, you'd need to use the engine management from the donor 4.0 to use that. If you want to use the stock Scorpio PCM, you'd want to stick with the factory disty and electronics. Basically, you'd just be swapping in the 4.0 long block.
Brad
Re: Day dreaming about a 4.0L in a Scorpio
My thought is to put the long block in and use the scorpio electronics. I just wasn't sure it had a provision for a distributor. I had looked at that thread, but lost interest when it became a back and forth about mega squirt. Oh well, the engine swap is a long way down the listDPDISXR4Ti wrote:I know the 4.0 swap has been done a couple times - pretty sure one of them was put into a XR rather than a Scorpio. I'm not sure if they were the OHC or OHV versions of the engine - I'm thinking OHV but that's just a guess.
It's something that has been discussed in here before - might be worth a search. Here, I saved you some effort... viewtopic.php?t=10881&highlight=cologne
On the subject of the 4.0 cam sensor, I believe that was used only with the EDIS implementations, and so practically speaking, you'd need to use the engine management from the donor 4.0 to use that. If you want to use the stock Scorpio PCM, you'd want to stick with the factory disty and electronics. Basically, you'd just be swapping in the 4.0 long block.
To tell the truth, I just want to make it to Carlisle next year
Darren Needham
Andover, Ks.
Andover, Ks.
Re: Day dreaming about a 4.0L in a Scorpio
FocusSVT wrote, "... I think the main issue is that I recall someone saying the 4.0L is taller and probably wouldn't fit under the hood."
A bit taller, yes, but IIRC from looking at ways to shove in a modded 'stealth' 4.0L Cologne OHV, the 2.9 Scorpio's upper intake manifold is shorter than the 4.0's, and the 4.0's lower intake is the shorter of the two. It seems that one could get creative with the Scorpio's upper, modified to fit the 4.0's lower, and bring the total height down enough that it would easily fit under a Scorpio's hood, not to mention pass for a factory 2.9 Scorpio engine as far as most emissions inspectors would notice. That's assuming all the standard Scorpio ignition, injection & emissions gear appears in place & functional... at least for 'The Test'.
The 4.0L OHV is a couple of inches wider across the rocker covers than the 2.9L also, but probably not enough to create any problems. The 2.9 distributor looks as though it will fit in a 4.0, possibly with a small amount of 'clearancing' needed at the rear of the lower intake manifold.
Definitely a 4.0 will need better balancing, and a new cam with a Scorpio-like grind, or an upgraded aftermarket unit to remove the 'trucky' (or "agricultural", as one writer put it) nature of the Explorer V6. Sounds like fun!
J.R.
SoCal
A bit taller, yes, but IIRC from looking at ways to shove in a modded 'stealth' 4.0L Cologne OHV, the 2.9 Scorpio's upper intake manifold is shorter than the 4.0's, and the 4.0's lower intake is the shorter of the two. It seems that one could get creative with the Scorpio's upper, modified to fit the 4.0's lower, and bring the total height down enough that it would easily fit under a Scorpio's hood, not to mention pass for a factory 2.9 Scorpio engine as far as most emissions inspectors would notice. That's assuming all the standard Scorpio ignition, injection & emissions gear appears in place & functional... at least for 'The Test'.
The 4.0L OHV is a couple of inches wider across the rocker covers than the 2.9L also, but probably not enough to create any problems. The 2.9 distributor looks as though it will fit in a 4.0, possibly with a small amount of 'clearancing' needed at the rear of the lower intake manifold.
Definitely a 4.0 will need better balancing, and a new cam with a Scorpio-like grind, or an upgraded aftermarket unit to remove the 'trucky' (or "agricultural", as one writer put it) nature of the Explorer V6. Sounds like fun!
J.R.
SoCal
J.R.
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Re: Day dreaming about a 4.0L in a Scorpio
A 4.0 SOHC will bolt right in place of your 2.9. No modifications needed. Bonus if you get a 2wd trans (ranger, explorer) it will bolt right up also and give you OD.
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- milehighXR
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Re: Day dreaming about a 4.0L in a Scorpio
I thought in Cali that if you swapped all the smog gear from a newer engine to an older vehicle with the new engine you you were okJ.R. wrote:FocusSVT wrote, "... I think the main issue is that I recall someone saying the 4.0L is taller and probably wouldn't fit under the hood."
A bit taller, yes, but IIRC from looking at ways to shove in a modded 'stealth' 4.0L Cologne OHV, the 2.9 Scorpio's upper intake manifold is shorter than the 4.0's, and the 4.0's lower intake is the shorter of the two. It seems that one could get creative with the Scorpio's upper, modified to fit the 4.0's lower, and bring the total height down enough that it would easily fit under a Scorpio's hood, not to mention pass for a factory 2.9 Scorpio engine as far as most emissions inspectors would notice. That's assuming all the standard Scorpio ignition, injection & emissions gear appears in place & functional... at least for 'The Test'.
The 4.0L OHV is a couple of inches wider across the rocker covers than the 2.9L also, but probably not enough to create any problems. The 2.9 distributor looks as though it will fit in a 4.0, possibly with a small amount of 'clearancing' needed at the rear of the lower intake manifold.
Definitely a 4.0 will need better balancing, and a new cam with a Scorpio-like grind, or an upgraded aftermarket unit to remove the 'trucky' (or "agricultural", as one writer put it) nature of the Explorer V6. Sounds like fun!
J.R.
SoCal
BassnTruck wrote:A 4.0 SOHC will bolt right in place of your 2.9. No modifications needed. Bonus if you get a 2wd trans (ranger, explorer) it will bolt right up also and give you OD.
Scorpio already has OD But you would get a MUCH stronger trans if it came from the 4.0L. Now to just figure the tail shaft bearing(in the nose of the tail shaft, it supports the intermediate shaft) since Ford couldn't use the same flaming tail shaft in all the 4x2 A4LDs
Johnny
1 86 XR aka Naomi- my first love, now daily driven project
DCLXVI
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Re: Day dreaming about a 4.0L in a Scorpio
That's a rather misleading statement. Do you have pics of this swap, since you imply that you've completed it?BassnTruck wrote:A 4.0 SOHC will bolt right in place of your 2.9. No modifications needed.
Brad
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Re: Day dreaming about a 4.0L in a Scorpio
How so? The motor itself will bolt right up to the Scorpio mounts. The block never changed. No I do not have any pictures. The wrecked Explorer sport trac I was going to buy to do the swap fell through. I did a lot of research on the subject prior to attempting to buy the truck for the swap. If I do not sell the car first and can find a donor cheap enough I will do it.DPDISXR4Ti wrote:That's a rather misleading statement. Do you have pics of this swap, since you imply that you've completed it?BassnTruck wrote:A 4.0 SOHC will bolt right in place of your 2.9. No modifications needed.
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Re: Day dreaming about a 4.0L in a Scorpio
Basically, yes, if it's a 'car' engine into a 'car' or truck/SUV engine into a truck/SUV (lower emissions limits for cars!); whole package including electronics & all. However, the 4.0L wasn't used in a "car" until the SOHC version went into the 2005-2010 Mustangs. Seems like the only 4.0 OHV that would pass through a CA Smog Referee's inspection would have to be a clever "stealth" installation, with all Scorpio 2.9L equipment present/functional, running clean & looking stock.milehighXR wrote: ... I thought in Cali that if you swapped all the smog gear from a newer engine to an older vehicle with the new engine you you were ok
So AFAIK the only 'whole powertrain' 4.0 swap the CA Smog Check folks would knowingly approve would be the '05-'10 Mustang SOHC unit, a nice but still very expensive package at this point. But there's a bonus: that would get a 5-speed overdrive automatic with a lower 1st gear, or else a 5-speed manual trans that would hold up to the torque. And according to factory specs, a Merkur Scorpio weighs 110Lbs less than an '05 Mustang V6!
J.R.
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Re: Day dreaming about a 4.0L in a Scorpio
About that SOHC. I also had plans to use sport trac motor with transmission. 200 hp motor far improved (A4ld) 5R55. But the way Ford modified that Cologne is stupid. Timing tensioners wear, and when its time for replacement whole motor is out of the car, because 1 of 3 timing chains is on the rear. Why?? May be nobody in Ford-USA knew about 2.9 Cosworth, or that Cosworth design can't be used in any cologne motors do to patents etc. So Lincoln LS 3.9 is the way to go. I'm not a big fan of V8 swaps into a Scorpio but it is AJ family motor. Plus 250 - 280 hp depends on the year is tempting. Just my $0.02.
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Re: Day dreaming about a 4.0L in a Scorpio
Okay, so "No modifications needed to bolt in the 4.0 short-block" might be a more accurate statement. Indeed having a complete (wrecked) donor vehicle would be the way to attempt this swap. To the best of my knowledge, nobody has actually done one of these swaps, only the 4.0 OHV.BassnTruck wrote:How so? The motor itself will bolt right up to the Scorpio mounts. The block never changed. No I do not have any pictures. The wrecked Explorer sport trac I was going to buy to do the swap fell through. I did a lot of research on the subject prior to attempting to buy the truck for the swap. If I do not sell the car first and can find a donor cheap enough I will do it.DPDISXR4Ti wrote:That's a rather misleading statement. Do you have pics of this swap, since you imply that you've completed it?BassnTruck wrote:A 4.0 SOHC will bolt right in place of your 2.9. No modifications needed.
Brad