Scorpio Speed sensor question

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brokencase
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Scorpio Speed sensor question

Post by brokencase » Sat Oct 07, 2017 7:00 pm

Will the other A4LD speed sensors (like Ranger, Aerostar) fit the Scorpio?
Rock auto list one for the Scorpio but they don't show a picture.

Some of these other units only have two connectors (Scorpio is three). I assume they went with case ground at some point.

brokencase
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Re: Scorpio Speed sensor question

Post by brokencase » Sat Oct 07, 2017 7:52 pm

I'll check the connector tomorrow, but odds are the sensor is bad (fuses are OK). No speedo, no fuel computer, no cruise...

Dug a little deeper. Looks like I'm headed towards the Contour Speed Sensor adapter thing.

It looks like the originator of this approach took a standard a4ld sensor and threaded the metal portion
to accept the 95-96 Contour sensor.

http://forum.merkurclub.com/forum/viewt ... ontour+VSS

Is this setup accurate? It seems it would be pretty coincidental to have the same number of poles as the Scorpio sensor?
Anybody out there running this solution? I'd like to hear from you.

Ed Lijewski
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Re: Scorpio Speed sensor question

Post by Ed Lijewski » Sat Oct 07, 2017 8:08 pm

Pick up one (good used; new; your choice) for the Euro Scorpio. The connector is a different type (triangular housing) so just remove it and splice/solder on your existing connector (roundish).

YMMV
Descartes: "Cogito Ergo Sum"
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brokencase
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Re: Scorpio Speed sensor question

Post by brokencase » Sat Oct 07, 2017 10:56 pm

You got a link to a vendor?

I see this but it is a little pricey...
https://www.fordpartsuk.com/shop/ford_g ... _c_150.htm

Ed Lijewski
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Re: Scorpio Speed sensor question

Post by Ed Lijewski » Sun Oct 08, 2017 7:04 am

No.

That one has the harness connector I described but its hold down retainer won't work. Keep searching, maybe for different Scorpio/Granada applications.
Descartes: "Cogito Ergo Sum"
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milehighXR
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Re: Scorpio Speed sensor question

Post by milehighXR » Sun Oct 08, 2017 1:30 pm

When I had a Scorpio I tried the Contour VSS with adapter. The adapter works flawlessly. The Contour VSS I got($54.00 ish from Napa) was junk. It lasted less than 1000mi, and since you have to chop the harness to fit it to the Scorpio the warranty on the Contour VSS is voided. If I still had a Scorpio, and if I was to use the Contour adapter, and VSS again, I would get the car side wire harness for the Contour from the boneyard, or Ford, or somewhere, wire that into the Scorpio, and then the Contour VSS is a plug in affair, that maintains the warranty.

I do have a Scorpio VSS test harness that I built. I'll sell it for $35.00 shipped if ya want it. Only works with stock Scorpio VSSes.

The differences in the North American VSSes for A4LD is related to how the VSS operates. The Scorpio VSS requires 12volt hot, and the NA ones generate a simple sine wave IIRC. Haven't looked that closely at them, and maybe someone smarterer than I can chime in.
Johnny


1 86 XR aka Naomi- my first love, now project car
1 14 black Fiesta SE aka Fiona- my new DD

DCLXVI

brokencase
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Re: Scorpio Speed sensor question

Post by brokencase » Sun Oct 08, 2017 9:43 pm

Thanks for chiming in milehighXR.

Let me ask you this. When the Contour vss was working was your indicated speed accurate? Reasonably accurate?

Here's what I plan to do...
1) Check the unit as per the manual. Still could be loose or dirty connection.

2) If bad - pull the unit. Open it up. Attempt repair. Yep I know, Sounds ambitious, but I'm pretty good with this kind of stuff.
I have some small surface mount HALL effect sensors, I might even be able to make a whole new circuit and repackage it in the original
housing (or make a new housing).

3) If I fail with #2 or find it impossible (or too difficult or screw up)... Then I'll buy the standard Ranger sensor.
Examine it's pinout and output to see if it meets what the Scorpio manual states:
"The voltage should rise above 5.5V and fall below 1.5V" as you spin the wheel.
From what I can tell about the US VSS's is that they only have two pins and they have provision for a speedo cable connection.
I am guessing that they went to just signal and power and made the case ground.
Even if the output is not compliant with what the Scorpio desires, I probably can make a small circuit to adapt it to make the signal
that the Scorpio wants. I could even make it output the same number of pulses/rev that the Scorpio unit does if it turns out to
be different.

4) If I fail with step 3, I'll buy the contour sensor, and do the adaptor thing. However I would want to make sure again that the interface
requirements are correct. It may be that somebody thought the Contour sensor could rn at 12v but instead it was only 5V(or some other voltage)
and that is why yours failed so soon. Or maybe it had insufficient drive for the rest of Scorpio receiving side.

I hope I arrive at the solution as described by step 3. That would mean that the other five Scorpio owners on the planet who should come into this predicament could just buy an inexpensive off the shelf sensor and make a simple circuit to adapt.

I'll post my progress here. Rest assured I will make a permanent solution to this problem. Just as I had done with the Scorpio temperature gauge/sensor a while back.

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Re: Scorpio Speed sensor question

Post by Ed Lijewski » Mon Oct 09, 2017 7:58 am

Ken Kizer majorly looked into repairing and testing VSSs; may have helpful starting info re your quest. He's out of Scorpio ownership now but occasionally checks in. Best to PM him.

YMMV
Descartes: "Cogito Ergo Sum"
Lijewski: "Sum Ergo Drive-O. Mucho!

Ed Lijewski
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Re: Scorpio Speed sensor question

Post by Ed Lijewski » Mon Oct 09, 2017 1:45 pm

Descartes: "Cogito Ergo Sum"
Lijewski: "Sum Ergo Drive-O. Mucho!

brokencase
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Re: Scorpio Speed sensor question

Post by brokencase » Mon Oct 09, 2017 11:51 pm

Yes -I've seen that Ed.

BTW this IS the current aftermarket replacement from Europe.
https://www.fordpartsuk.com/shop/ford_g ... _c_150.htm

I can find no others.

Here is a side by side picture...but it is too expensive.
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Ed Lijewski
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Re: Scorpio Speed sensor question

Post by Ed Lijewski » Tue Oct 10, 2017 6:36 am

It does appear the retainer on the new unit fits (my error).

I'm an Eagle-squeezer non-pareil, but with no available alternative I'd buy that new authentic unit even at its total delivered cost. (I'd sure look for possible discount, seasonal/special/other as many parts outlets occasionally offer.) Restoring speedo, odometer, and trip computer functions in one easy swap (one bolt, one connector), likely good for 100K miles+, would be worth it to me.

YMMV
Descartes: "Cogito Ergo Sum"
Lijewski: "Sum Ergo Drive-O. Mucho!

Ed Lijewski
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Re: Scorpio Speed sensor question

Post by Ed Lijewski » Tue Oct 10, 2017 10:48 am

Wonder if these 5 speed VSSs (available here and elsewhere) could be sdapted for Scorpio auto trans use. The wiring should be the same; the IP are the same. Anyone have a pic of the 5-speed VSS?

The Scorpio auto trans VSS p/n is E8RY-9E731-B.

http://www.rearcounter.com/E8RY-9E731-A ... 07550.html

YMMV
Descartes: "Cogito Ergo Sum"
Lijewski: "Sum Ergo Drive-O. Mucho!

Ed Lijewski
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Re: Scorpio Speed sensor question

Post by Ed Lijewski » Tue Oct 10, 2017 10:49 am

Wonder if the guts of 5 speed VSSs (available here and elsewhere) could be sdapted for Scorpio auto trans use. The wiring should be the same; the IP is the same.

The Scorpio auto trans VSS p/n is E8RY-9E731-B.

http://www.rearcounter.com/E8RY-9E731-A ... 07550.html

YMMV
Descartes: "Cogito Ergo Sum"
Lijewski: "Sum Ergo Drive-O. Mucho!

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milehighXR
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Re: Scorpio Speed sensor question

Post by milehighXR » Tue Oct 10, 2017 11:47 am

I didn't check it against GPS, but it seemed accurate against those speed signs that tell you how fast your going(of course if that sign isn't in calibration...) Everything worked, fuel computer, cruise, speedo. I have not heard of others having a Contour VSS that failed as fast as mine, but then again I'm the last Scorpio in my garage :lol: I chalk the failure of mine up to not buying a Motorcraft unit. There have documented issues with buying non Motorcraft electronics parts, TPS, and TFI come to mind off the top of my head.

I would be shocked if the Ranger/TC VSS produced the same signal as the Scorpio one. Those sensors are similar to the one in the XR, 2 wires, and super simple. The Scorpio/Contour operate on the same principle IIRC, but different than the 2 wire sensors. Just have different connectors, and body. The body is different probably because the contour is FWD, while the Scorpio is RWD. Packaging concerns are different between the 2 cars.

Yer fastest option is to get the Contour sensor(from Ford, don't get the $55.00 one I got from Napa, or figure out what others are using) and get the adapter(I sold mine already IIRC). Get the Contour car side connector/harness from Ford, or a junk yard car. If you want to go back to a Scorpio sensor later for concours sake, cut the harness off yer busted Scorpio sensor, and splice it to the Contour car side harness, and now you have a plug an play setup that maintains warranty for the Contour sensor, and maintains the ability to go back to stock for the Scorpio if you decide to, or if you sell the car and the new owner can't figure out what you did. IF I still had a Scorpio, or was working on someone elses, this is what I would do. It's way less mental masturbation than trying to fix the Scorpios sensor. Most of the broken Scorpio sensors I have seen were only bad because the wiring broke at the body.
brokencase wrote:
Sun Oct 08, 2017 9:43 pm
Thanks for chiming in milehighXR.

Let me ask you this. When the Contour vss was working was your indicated speed accurate? Reasonably accurate?

Here's what I plan to do...
1) Check the unit as per the manual. Still could be loose or dirty connection.

2) If bad - pull the unit. Open it up. Attempt repair. Yep I know, Sounds ambitious, but I'm pretty good with this kind of stuff.
I have some small surface mount HALL effect sensors, I might even be able to make a whole new circuit and repackage it in the original
housing (or make a new housing).

3) If I fail with #2 or find it impossible (or too difficult or screw up)... Then I'll buy the standard Ranger sensor.
Examine it's pinout and output to see if it meets what the Scorpio manual states:
"The voltage should rise above 5.5V and fall below 1.5V" as you spin the wheel.
From what I can tell about the US VSS's is that they only have two pins and they have provision for a speedo cable connection.
I am guessing that they went to just signal and power and made the case ground.
Even if the output is not compliant with what the Scorpio desires, I probably can make a small circuit to adapt it to make the signal
that the Scorpio wants. I could even make it output the same number of pulses/rev that the Scorpio unit does if it turns out to
be different.

4) If I fail with step 3, I'll buy the contour sensor, and do the adaptor thing. However I would want to make sure again that the interface
requirements are correct. It may be that somebody thought the Contour sensor could rn at 12v but instead it was only 5V(or some other voltage)
and that is why yours failed so soon. Or maybe it had insufficient drive for the rest of Scorpio receiving side.

I hope I arrive at the solution as described by step 3. That would mean that the other five Scorpio owners on the planet who should come into this predicament could just buy an inexpensive off the shelf sensor and make a simple circuit to adapt.

I'll post my progress here. Rest assured I will make a permanent solution to this problem. Just as I had done with the Scorpio temperature gauge/sensor a while back.
Johnny


1 86 XR aka Naomi- my first love, now project car
1 14 black Fiesta SE aka Fiona- my new DD

DCLXVI

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milehighXR
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Re: Scorpio Speed sensor question

Post by milehighXR » Tue Oct 10, 2017 11:52 am

On closer inspection of the link below, it looks as if the connector on that sensor matches the Contour. I wouldn't buy it until you can verify the connector, especially at $200.00 just for the sensor...

It's also for the wrong years too, 94-98. That's the later "frog-eyed" Scorpio. 2nd to last generation of the car.
brokencase wrote:
Sat Oct 07, 2017 10:56 pm
You got a link to a vendor?

I see this but it is a little pricey...
https://www.fordpartsuk.com/shop/ford_g ... _c_150.htm
Johnny


1 86 XR aka Naomi- my first love, now project car
1 14 black Fiesta SE aka Fiona- my new DD

DCLXVI

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