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XR4Ti / Sierra / Sierra Cosworth Discussions - Questions, problem resolution, general talk, technical tips and modifications.
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mangostick
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front brakes

Post by mangostick » Fri Dec 14, 2007 12:48 am

hey all.. I figured I would toss this one out there.. does anyone know if the cossie front brakes mount the same as the xr4ti? I know the knuckles are different.. but do the brakes mount the same? .. tis the question. TIA!
where'd I put that damned hammer?? :-D

Shawn Mangan

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Re: front brakes

Post by janvanv » Fri Dec 14, 2007 1:11 am

mangostick wrote:hey all.. I figured I would toss this one out there.. does anyone know if the cossie front brakes mount the same as the xr4ti? I know the knuckles are different.. but do the brakes mount the same? .. tis the question. TIA!
The ears are the same 3.4' spacing but beefier and they're threaded for M12 x 1.5.
Xratties have the caliper bracket threaded, so you could say they din't bolt up the same.
Hat is deeper on Cossies.
My alloy hat is made to work on both the Xratty and Sapphire knuckles by being about 1.5mm off from cenyterline on the one and 1.5mm offset the other way on the other, but that varies depending on the knuckle, sometimes it's less.
John Vanlandingham
JVAB Imports
Seattle, WA, USA

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Maurice S
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Post by Maurice S » Fri Dec 14, 2007 1:16 am

Some Canuck here has adapter brackets, then Contour SVT discs, and 99~04??? Mustang GT calipers and it should stop better than an 85 beater Toyota pick up...that my XR...sadly does not.
85 XR '" Lightly Street Massaged"

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mangostick
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Post by mangostick » Fri Dec 14, 2007 1:23 am

So definitely not directly "swap-able" without swaping over the knuckles as well? ... hmm. Thanks for the info John, Much Appreciated! I had my eye on your brake setup too.. whats the ballpark price on a front and rear kit? (all parts included to bolt on/bleed and stop happy) I'm pricing out brake solutions to match the amount of "go" I now have under the hood.

Already have the pbr's and svt contour rotors up front.. still stock out back.. I want this thing to stop hard enough to give me acid reflux. If my 07 corolla can do that.. my built xr should be able to as well. ;)
where'd I put that damned hammer?? :-D

Shawn Mangan

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Post by Maurice S » Fri Dec 14, 2007 2:21 am

Cossie or Turbocoupe rear discs....Wildwood kit in front??

Brakes...yeah...my beater 85 Toyota Pick up stops better than my XR!
85 XR '" Lightly Street Massaged"

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Post by janvanv » Fri Dec 14, 2007 5:05 am

mangostick wrote:
So definitely not directly "swap-able" without swaping over the knuckles as well? ... hmm.
Just run a M12 x 1.75 tap thru the Xratty mounting ears and throw the things on.
Close enuf to direct swappable.


Thanks for the info John, Much Appreciated! I had my eye on your brake setup too.. whats the ballpark price on a front and rear kit? (all parts included to bolt on/bleed and stop happy) I'm pricing out brake solutions to match the amount of "go" I now have under the hood.
88 per bell, 100 per disc, something for the 16 bolts and all metal locknuts, something for whatever you choose for pads, mid 160s for the Forged Superlight calipoers, or 195ish for the US Brakes F88 calipers each.
Hoses TBA thios Saturday

Already have the pbr's and svt contour rotors up front.. still stock out back.. I want this thing to stop hard enough to give me acid reflux. If my 07 corolla can do that.. my built xr should be able to as well. ;)
First guy using them said "It feels like I can do "stoppies"

Nailing down the final spec for the rears, likely 11 x 1 with Willwood 4 x 1.24 calipers, and hydraulic handbrakes (loads of fun!!! Really)
John Vanlandingham
JVAB Imports
Seattle, WA, USA

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Post by granth » Fri Dec 14, 2007 11:24 am

Stoppies, and wheee.

Image

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Post by whitelx » Fri Dec 14, 2007 11:49 am

John,
Do the early XRs need a master cylinder upgrade to run the Wilwood calipers?
1986 XR4Ti - 294rwhp/315ft-lbs
1992 Mustang 5.0 notch - 434rwhp/445ft-lbs
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Post by hEaT » Fri Dec 14, 2007 12:22 pm

whitelx wrote:John,
Do the early XRs need a master cylinder upgrade to run the Wilwood calipers?

Even if it doesn't, I've heard the later master and boosted is a night and day difference so might as well.
Joe
1985 Nimbus Grey XR
2017 Ford Focus RS

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Post by janvanv » Fri Dec 14, 2007 3:08 pm

whitelx wrote:John,
Do the early XRs need a master cylinder upgrade to run the Wilwood calipers?
After a bummer experience with Superlite IIs on a Saab 900 about 10 years ago I set them aside till now when they finally have calipers this size with pistons between the 4 x 1.34 size and the common 4 x 1.75 like I used on that Saab project.
The Superlites I use have 4 x 1.62, the US Brakes have 2 x 1.34 and 2x 1.75 and this is within 2% of the sizes Ford and everybody else have used since way back when till now on cars this size and the speeds we actually run at ie under 130 mph.

I haven't used these on any stock car, Grant's is the first car with them working and he's using dual masters, no booster.

It should work OK with early, most certainly well with the later set up, or you could just ditch the servo and OEM master and make your own adjustable pedal box sorta like the outdated ancient stuck in the 80s thing in grey next to Fords own "909" version in black:
Image

Then you can select the master cylinder size easily.
John Vanlandingham
JVAB Imports
Seattle, WA, USA

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mangostick
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Post by mangostick » Sat Dec 15, 2007 12:30 am

I'd like to be able to go to a full manual setup like that.. It seems to be alot of work.. but well worth it in the end. I'll have to give you a call sometime John. I like the simplicity of being able to not rely on engine vac for solid braking. How much modification is needed to swap over to the dual master setup?
where'd I put that damned hammer?? :-D

Shawn Mangan

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Post by granth » Sat Dec 15, 2007 1:13 am

If you look at Skye's site, he used to have a pretty good diagram.
My setup from Checkpoint Racing was around $300 and is a bolt in, requiring two new holes drilled, and I welded in a reinforcement plate on the firewall. Figure closer to $350 these days with $#!%^& exchange rates.

I used a K-sport hydraulic handbrake that was $162.50 with master cylinder.

All custom lines, reservoir, etc. If you do hard lines, probably could do for under $200 if AN fittings, less if something else. Then around $75-100 for the soft braided to calipers. I did all stainless braided teflon soft lines and proper bulkhead fittings everywhere and it was about $500.

The rear brake setup I did was around $900-1000. 11X0.84 rotors with 4X1.25 Wilwood NDL rotors and a custom bracket with 7/16-20 threaded inserts. The rotor hat requires the hubs to be turned down a very slight amount, though they still remain about the same diameter as the front hubs.

My whole brake setup was somewhere around $3000, but I had some waste in fittings and lines since I wasn't certain on method. Now I have a spreadsheet with exact part numbers and a diagram for running all soft lines that I am more than happy to share. Need to spend another $50 on an in car adjuster for the bias box still.

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Post by mangostick » Sun Dec 16, 2007 3:05 am

Cool.. what was the web link to the place that offered the bolt in mc conversion? .. That saves me a lot of fab work/time to be able to buy that part rather than build a rig like that from scratch.
where'd I put that damned hammer?? :-D

Shawn Mangan

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Post by janvanv » Sun Dec 16, 2007 12:52 pm

mangostick wrote:Cool.. what was the web link to the place that offered the bolt in mc conversion? .. That saves me a lot of fab work/time to be able to buy that part rather than build a rig like that from scratch.
Hang on a bit and I'll have another run of 5-6 of the copiesof the Ford parts.
Found a new-to-Xrattiness guy who is just setting up to do sheetmetal, laser cut bending and of course he wants to build a rally car so if'n he's doing one, then why not 6-10
I already have a pile of the basic boxes.

And naturally it'll cost way less than Grant's impulse buy.
John Vanlandingham
JVAB Imports
Seattle, WA, USA

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Re: front brakes

Post by DPDISXR4Ti » Sun Dec 16, 2007 1:26 pm

janvanv wrote:Hat is deeper on Cossies.
Anyone know the Cossie rotor offset as compared to the Contour SVT rotor that many of us use? Is the offset the same as a stock XR rotor? I was just mocking up a Scorpio front knuckle with a Brembo 4-pot off a Porsche 951 - I need more rotor inset if this is to work.

Hmmm, then again, maybe not... Just thought of another way to possibly make this work.....
Brad

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