T-5 deliberation (which one to use?)

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BuzzBomb2.3
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T-5 deliberation (which one to use?)

Post by BuzzBomb2.3 » Thu Nov 12, 2009 7:17 pm

Ok, so I've come at a crossroads. I've dug through the pile of old ford parts and found the two old non-WC t-5's I picked up almost 10 years ago. One is out of an '83.5 Mustang and the other an '84 'stang. Today at the yard I came across a nearly stripped 88 TC. Grabbed the vam, saw that the ECU was gone (bummer) but the t-5 is still in there.

Question is this: If and when I do decide to convert, should I go with either the Mustang T-5's or is it better to use the TC T-5? I believe the '88 would be more oriented for the engine, but the mustang cores would be better suited to the power when I build on it later down the road. I aim to hit 250-300 hp once all the basics are running right.

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Mike McCreight
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Post by Mike McCreight » Thu Nov 12, 2009 9:09 pm

Note the tag #s and check on-line for the ratios.
http://www.britishv8.org/Articles/Borg- ... D-Tags.htm
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Post by hEaT » Thu Nov 12, 2009 10:11 pm

I'd go with the WC, but you'll need to swap bellhousings if you want to stay with a cable clutch. 87-88 Turbocoupes had a hydraulic clutch.
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Post by DPDISXR4Ti » Thu Nov 12, 2009 10:43 pm

Like Mike said, you need to identify which T-5's you've actually got there first. Did they come out of V8 or Turbo-4 Mustangs?

That said, assuming it's in decent condition and not a lot of dollars, grab that '88 TC T-5.
Brad

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pacwest
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Post by pacwest » Fri Nov 13, 2009 12:28 am

In a merkur you are insane to not use the v8 box. All other gear ratios suck.

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xrattiracer
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Post by xrattiracer » Fri Nov 13, 2009 1:50 am

i like my 88 tc T5 gearing. in fact i am wanting to go back to a lower final drive again. but with a stock engine that doesnt make any power up top maybe things are different.
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Post by pacwest » Fri Nov 13, 2009 2:14 am

Try the 2.95 gear and you'd like it a lot. 3.36 is "ok".

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Post by BuzzBomb2.3 » Fri Nov 13, 2009 2:39 am

Both mustang transmissions are from v8's I remember quite clearly.

I've dug up the ratios online. The three are as follows:

'83.5: 2.95, 1.94, 1.34, 1.00, .725

'84: Same except 5th is .625

'88 T-bird: 3.97, 2.34, 1.46, 1.00, .80

The t-bird t-5 looks easier to launch, but man it'd be nice to have that highway gear from the '84. It'd help on mileage.

Non WC T-5 are estimated at 270 ft ibs but the 88 t-bid seems to be approx 240. Pretty close to the non turbo 2.3 transmission.

Check it all out here:

http://www.allfordmustangs.com/Detailed/349.shtml
http://www.coolcats.net/tech/advanced/t5_data.html

I know neither page shows the 83.5 but I can't for the life of me find the page I had found ealier. If it's wrong and the two transmissions are the same, I might just rebuild one good box of the two with a rebuild kit...

...but then again the TC t-5 was indeed designed for the 2.3. :P

*Edit* I didn't realize this until now that the input shafts are not the same. Is this difficult to change?

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Post by pacwest » Fri Nov 13, 2009 3:20 am

I cannot stress enough how wrong the 2.3 T5 is for a Merkur. It's not easier to launch.

You are on boost for a very short time. Then building boost again during second. The guy beside you with a 2.95 is now rocketing past you still in full boost.

I might as well shut up, no one listens to this advise about gearing anyway.

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Post by Mike McCreight » Fri Nov 13, 2009 9:33 am

If you're not afraid to open 'em up and do the required maintenance, the "NWC" boxes are fine. Much easier to find with the good ratios.
You'll need to have the input shaft turned down, (preferred) or use the bushing made specifically for putting the V-8 box behind a 2.3.
You'll find that .6? 5th TALL. I had my doubts about using one 'til I drove Ian's monster that had that trans. It's fine for cruising (65+ mph) behind a properly set up motor. You'll need to downshift to pass, but hey, that's why we have that pedal and stick for in the first place. I tell anyone who questions this to go out and buy a Lincoln.
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Post by DPDISXR4Ti » Fri Nov 13, 2009 11:35 am

pacwest wrote:I cannot stress enough how wrong the 2.3 T5 is for a Merkur.
I cannot stress enough how wrong it is to make this statement without any context of the rear-end gearing! :twisted:

Secondarily, the purpose/goal of the vehicle and desires of the owner are part of the equation which need to be taken into account.

All that said, for the majority, I think the 3.97 WC T-5 with a 3.36 or 3.27 <8.8> rear-end is a reasonable combo. It also happens to be the easiest way to go - no machining of the input shaft or bushing required.
Brad

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Post by pacwest » Fri Nov 13, 2009 1:51 pm

See the funny thing is the rear end gearing really shouldn't be a factor. Close and wide ratio considered the car will still be out of boost the same. The RPM spread between shifts sucks and the rear end ratio has nearly zero bearing on that.

Considering that %98 (work with me here) of all merkurs that have a T5 in them have 3.64:1 makes this a weak argument.

The wide ratio boxes are wrong for Merkurs. Regardless of rear end ratio.

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Post by xrattiracer » Fri Nov 13, 2009 1:59 pm

but what if i am in first longer with my 3.97 box than you are with your 2.95 box? a higher rev limit makes that 3.97 box much more attractive and the 2.95 less so in my opinion.
and the torque ratings are simply a factor of gear ratio. change the ratio and you change the torque rating.
I do admit that I am trying to transition from drag racing tho where lower gearing is almost always better than higher gearing. I am not too sure about autocross yet, but it seems very dependant on many other factors.
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Post by DPDISXR4Ti » Fri Nov 13, 2009 2:30 pm

pacwest wrote:Considering that %98 (work with me here) of all merkurs that have a T5 in them have 3.64:1 makes this a weak argument.
Can't work with you if your data is wrong! :P I would suggest that at least 50% of the Merkurs with a T-5 swap were originally C-3 cars, and thus they would already have a 3.36 rather than a 3.64. Furthermore, swapping a stock rear-end one-for-one is a rather simple task - heck, you don't even have to touch the outer T-40 bolts, which are the ones that usually cause all the grief. I know I've got a spare 3.36 on the floor in the garage today, but if I didn't, I bet I could get one for less than $100 without traveling far.

Back to you counselor.... :mrgreen:
Brad

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Post by Ray » Fri Nov 13, 2009 5:25 pm

Brad if you want to lose your spare 3.36 let me know. I only want the ring and pinion gear tho ;)
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