No adapter Big Brakes

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John Brennan
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Re: No adapter Big Brakes

Post by John Brennan » Fri Aug 07, 2015 5:58 pm

John V wrote:
John Brennan wrote:I look at 'em every day... and I can tell you, they are wonderful. The ST is several hundred pounds lighter than the XR, but if there's an application, it would probably be a good upgrade.

hat is too shallow.
Thanks, John-- figures you would know. Ah, well, they are happy where they are, anyway!
This is my car, and these are my people!
1989 XR4Ti 5-Speed
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DPDISXR4Ti
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Re: No adapter Big Brakes

Post by DPDISXR4Ti » Sat Aug 08, 2015 10:23 am

John V wrote:hat is too shallow.
In the pic John posted, it looks like there's not hat at all. Hell, it looks like the rotor is attached directly to the wheel! :mrgreen:
Brad

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Re: No adapter Big Brakes

Post by popimpracer » Fri Aug 03, 2018 11:47 am

Did anyone ever try this in the real world?

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Re: No adapter Big Brakes

Post by timxr8 » Wed Aug 15, 2018 10:52 pm

popimpracer wrote:
Fri Aug 03, 2018 11:47 am
Did anyone ever try this in the real world?
A few guys are running very similar setups. Piston sizing is 57mm and the stock Focus has a master cylinder the same size as the early XR (85-86 or so).

The OP was using the 08-11 brakes, which are 275mm with AL caliper. The 05-07 and all the 2012+ base models use a 278mm rotor with steel caliper.

I've got a "kit" that provides a means of fitting the newer (2012+) Focus front brakes on the XR with the 08-11 rotors to make it completely bolt-on to the XR.
Tim Spencer
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2011 Taurus SHO daily driver...not stock.

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Re: No adapter Big Brakes

Post by DPDISXR4Ti » Thu Aug 16, 2018 8:52 am

timxr8 wrote:
Wed Aug 15, 2018 10:52 pm
The OP was using the 08-11 brakes, which are 275mm with AL caliper. The 05-07 and all the 2012+ base models use a 278mm rotor with steel caliper.
Tim- Did you ever compare the weight of the '08 caliper vs. the 2012? I wonder if there were any reliability issues with the '08 caliper given that they only used it for 3 years. I've been thinking about the Focus caliper again, but for use on a Scorpio. Seems like the only ~11" hub-centric 5x112 rotor that could be used is the (Euro only) Cosworth Scorpio.

Either way (XR or Scorpio should be the same), have you got the flex brake line figured out?
Brad

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Re: No adapter Big Brakes

Post by thesameguy » Thu Aug 16, 2018 11:23 am

Have you looked at turn of the century Audis? 5x112 is their bolt pattern, and their brakes were mostly ATE.

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Re: No adapter Big Brakes

Post by DPDISXR4Ti » Thu Aug 16, 2018 12:44 pm

thesameguy wrote:
Thu Aug 16, 2018 11:23 am
Have you looked at turn of the century Audis? 5x112 is their bolt pattern, and their brakes were mostly ATE.
I did a little. The center-hub size is bigger and 14mm lugs instead of 12mm. Neither are total deal-killers, but I lost interest at that point. I've probably got my old rotors from my '02 A4 around here somewhere - maybe I should at least try those. If interested, I've got a thread on this topic on the Scorpio forum... http://forum.merkurclub.com/forum/viewt ... 29&t=33623
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Re: No adapter Big Brakes

Post by thesameguy » Thu Aug 16, 2018 1:04 pm

I have Corvette rotors and Kosei wheels on my Fiero and 3D printed a one piece hub adapter to center both the rotor and the wheel. But, also, the Corvette rotors are 5x114 and the Fiero is 5x100, so I had a machine shop drill a secondary 5x100 pattern into the rotor. The whole setup works great. Although having to spend $50 extra every time I change brakes isn't ideal, 13" rotors stopping a 2700lb car means rotors tend to last. ;) But, uh, point being I think the world is your oyster as far as rotors go - all you need is a donor car with a 5-bolt PCD that you can offset a second pattern and a hub bigger than the Scorpio's. A machine shop and a 3D printer can solve the rest. The calipers are the bigger challenge, although the ATE bolt spacing is pretty common. The XR is a bit of a bigger problem... very few 4-bolt cars came with legitimately big rotors and mixing 4-bolt and 5-bolt patterns on one rotor is iffy.

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Re: No adapter Big Brakes

Post by timxr8 » Thu Aug 16, 2018 4:58 pm

DPDISXR4Ti wrote:
Thu Aug 16, 2018 8:52 am
timxr8 wrote:
Wed Aug 15, 2018 10:52 pm
The OP was using the 08-11 brakes, which are 275mm with AL caliper. The 05-07 and all the 2012+ base models use a 278mm rotor with steel caliper.
Tim- Did you ever compare the weight of the '08 caliper vs. the 2012? I wonder if there were any reliability issues with the '08 caliper given that they only used it for 3 years. I've been thinking about the Focus caliper again, but for use on a Scorpio. Seems like the only ~11" hub-centric 5x112 rotor that could be used is the (Euro only) Cosworth Scorpio.

Either way (XR or Scorpio should be the same), have you got the flex brake line figured out?
Brad, funny thing, I just did a setup for a guy doing Scorpio fronts and the offset is nearly identical between the Scorpio and the 2012+ Focus. That means no spacer required. As for the 08-11 calipers, I haven't seen or heard of any reliability issues and my Wife's car is a 2010 Focus.

I have hoses for both front and rear. Let me know if you need anything like that. For the bolt pattern, I can simply redrill the rotors for $25 a pair. If I can get these drill bushings in, I'll have a jig to put in a drill press and redrill the focus rotors (any 5 lug rotor) to 5x114.3.
Tim Spencer
1988 XR4Ti Duratec project car
2011 Taurus SHO daily driver...not stock.

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Re: No adapter Big Brakes

Post by DPDISXR4Ti » Thu Aug 16, 2018 10:32 pm

timxr8 wrote:
Thu Aug 16, 2018 4:58 pm
Brad, funny thing, I just did a setup for a guy doing Scorpio fronts and the offset is nearly identical between the Scorpio and the 2012+ Focus. That means no spacer required. As for the 08-11 calipers, I haven't seen or heard of any reliability issues and my Wife's car is a 2010 Focus.

I have hoses for both front and rear. Let me know if you need anything like that. For the bolt pattern, I can simply redrill the rotors for $25 a pair. If I can get these drill bushings in, I'll have a jig to put in a drill press and redrill the focus rotors (any 5 lug rotor) to 5x114.3.
Sounds like this is the best answer given that they've left the center bore at 63.3mm. Thanks for leading me down a path I hadn't considered Tim. :thumb
Brad

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Re: No adapter Big Brakes

Post by DPDISXR4Ti » Mon Feb 25, 2019 1:15 pm

Just a minor little data point I'll add before it escapes my brain... If considering using the front Focus brake lines, the 2005 - '08 and 2012+ flex lines are nearly identical. The 2012+ lines are about 1" longer than the 2005. Depending on fitment in the XR (or Scorpio), one line might be better than the other. At some point I'll have better fitment info. Ya know, like when I actually fit them in a car. :roll:

Also, the 2005 caliper bracket has a slightly different offset vs. the 2012 bracket. Furthermore, as Tim has mentioned, the '05 bracket is machined for 12mm bolts while the 2012 is 14mm. Otherwise, they're the same caliper.

Kinda weird that Ford went with an entirely different caliper on just the 2008 - 2010 Focus and then went back to the older one starting with the new Focus in 2012. I had initially started this thread regarding the 2008 caliper, but I'd probably lean more towards the one used in 2005 - 08 and 2012+ given the broader coverage and mix & match options.
Brad

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Re: No adapter Big Brakes

Post by my8950 » Thu Feb 28, 2019 8:20 pm

DPDISXR4Ti wrote:
Mon Feb 25, 2019 1:15 pm
Just a minor little data point I'll add before it escapes my brain... If considering using the front Focus brake lines, the 2005 - '08 and 2012+ flex lines are nearly identical. The 2012+ lines are about 1" longer than the 2005. Depending on fitment in the XR (or Scorpio), one line might be better than the other. At some point I'll have better fitment info. Ya know, like when I actually fit them in a car. :roll:

Also, the 2005 caliper bracket has a slightly different offset vs. the 2012 bracket. Furthermore, as Tim has mentioned, the '05 bracket is machined for 12mm bolts while the 2012 is 14mm. Otherwise, they're the same caliper.

Kinda weird that Ford went with an entirely different caliper on just the 2008 - 2010 Focus and then went back to the older one starting with the new Focus in 2012. I had initially started this thread regarding the 2008 caliper, but I'd probably lean more towards the one used in 2005 - 08 and 2012+ given the broader coverage and mix & match options.
If I recall correctly, the XR has 12mm bolts to fit the caliper? So, if we get the 2005 Focus parts they should bolt right up?

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Re: No adapter Big Brakes

Post by DPDISXR4Ti » Thu Feb 28, 2019 9:33 pm

my8950 wrote:
Thu Feb 28, 2019 8:20 pm
If I recall correctly, the XR has 12mm bolts to fit the caliper? So, if we get the 2005 Focus parts they should bolt right up?
Nope, stock is a rather wimpy 10mm. That's why Tim was concerned about taking away so much metal going from 10 to 14mm, if the 2012+ Focus calipers were used as-is. I'm pretty sure it would be fine, but if I can get the 2005 calipers to work, that's what I'll likely go with.
Brad

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Re: No adapter Big Brakes

Post by my8950 » Fri Mar 01, 2019 10:24 am

DPDISXR4Ti wrote:
Thu Feb 28, 2019 9:33 pm
my8950 wrote:
Thu Feb 28, 2019 8:20 pm
If I recall correctly, the XR has 12mm bolts to fit the caliper? So, if we get the 2005 Focus parts they should bolt right up?
Nope, stock is a rather wimpy 10mm. That's why Tim was concerned about taking away so much metal going from 10 to 14mm, if the 2012+ Focus calipers were used as-is. I'm pretty sure it would be fine, but if I can get the 2005 calipers to work, that's what I'll likely go with.
Ok, thank you!

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Re: No adapter Big Brakes

Post by timxr8 » Sat Mar 02, 2019 8:57 pm

Thanks for looking into the earlier stuff. I'm curious on the difference in the offset. Hopefully easy enough to just get a slightly different spacer. With the M12 bolt, no modifications needed as I get a 1/2" Spacer and bore it out.

Reason I actually like the 12+ Focus is I found a good thread adapter to make it bolt-in for the XR. This is perfectly adequate for the 278mm (11") brakes, but going to the ST (320mm or 335mm) I'd want to go with the M14 bolts. The XR has enough "meat" in the caliper mounting ears while the Scorpio has significantly less...weird as the Scorpio is heavier. After drilling my Scorpio hubs to 12mm for the Wilwood brakes, I think there is just enough to go to 14mm.
Tim Spencer
1988 XR4Ti Duratec project car
2011 Taurus SHO daily driver...not stock.

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