motor angle and motor mounts? => update regarding vibrati

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Joe62Tampa
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motor angle and motor mounts? => update regarding vibrati

Post by Joe62Tampa » Tue Oct 12, 2010 10:03 am

==
11/05/2010 update: see last post
==

My car was on a lift yesterday since I thought I was having transmission problems from "bad sounds". The shop who rebuilt the T5 put the car on a lift and after some poking around noted a few things for me to check out. The angle of the transmission -- hence the engine too -- is tilted forward. I have the Rapido T5 crossmember and the transmission mount installed.

I don't recall any instructions, notes, etc. that came with it, figuring it's just bolted onto the body as-is. But, does it need to be spaced down from the body? Is there some amount of tilting that is considered normal?

Can motor mounts sag over time? (They seem original and the car has about 59,000 miles but they don't seem collapsed and don't appear to have cracks.) Sagging mounts would definitely contribute to the 'tilt'. There's also very little space between the oil pan and the crossmember and steering rack. (I don't have a measurement -- shoulda done that while it was up.)

NOTE: I still need to align the driveshaft, but I want to address the transmission/engine angle and align once.

Other posts make reference to this:
http://www.turbochuck.com/
How much vibration will these introduce compared to stock type, for example from Rapido? (I have a set I never used that are about 5 years old.)
Last edited by Joe62Tampa on Fri Nov 05, 2010 8:31 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Chuck W
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Post by Chuck W » Tue Oct 12, 2010 10:31 am

More specifically...
http://www.turbochuck.com/wp-content/motormounts.html

You'll know they're there, but each engine is different. I've had folks tell me that even a change in engine tune has affected the amount of vibrations felt.
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Post by Joe62Tampa » Tue Oct 12, 2010 10:40 am

:oops:
:oops:
Rats - I was beat back to my post.... upon closer inspection with the new motor mount in hand, the top part of the motor mount has collapsed, (i.e. the part that comes up at an angle.)
:oops:

Chuck, thanks for the reference page :-)

The ones from Rapido seem ok... I may give them a shot since they're "free"... if they don't work, then the ones from Chuck may be on the list. (I called Rapido about replacement mounts -- I forgot I had the other ones -- and they're $118 _each_!)

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Post by MerkXRTurbo » Tue Oct 12, 2010 4:14 pm

Yes, motor mounts can, will, and do sag over time. On many Merkurs you will notice that the sagging motor mounts will actually cause the front of the pan to rub the steering rack, which can wear a hole right through the body of the rack over a period of time.
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Post by tvissoc » Tue Oct 12, 2010 4:53 pm

Chuck W wrote:More specifically...
http://www.turbochuck.com/wp-content/motormounts.html

You'll know they're there, but each engine is different. I've had folks tell me that even a change in engine tune has affected the amount of vibrations felt.
Wow, Chuck. Didn't realize you'd expanded your offering so much. Might be in for a trans mount soon.

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Joe62Tampa
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Post by Joe62Tampa » Sat Oct 16, 2010 11:43 am

Such anticipation and then such a let down *sigh*

The spare motor mounts I found in my garage still seemed good... I had them installed which helped.
Other stuff I had dealt with was having the DS aligned, (after new mounts) and re-aligning the exhaust so it wouldn't hang so low. (Some things are easier to have done than to do myself - especially when others have better equipment and right tools!)

The car has a nasty vibration when the engine is spinning around 3200 rpm. That is with the car standing still which eliminates lots of other stuff. With the T5 upgrade, I got a new flywheel as the other looked. Are all the turbo-2.3 flywheels the same? (This may have been from a t-coupe.)

Can the crankshaft pulley be on wrong that would cause the vibration?

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Post by DSPXR4ti » Sat Oct 16, 2010 12:03 pm

Joe62Tampa wrote:Such anticipation and then such a let down *sigh*

The spare motor mounts I found in my garage still seemed good... I had them installed which helped.
Other stuff I had dealt with was having the DS aligned, (after new mounts) and re-aligning the exhaust so it wouldn't hang so low. (Some things are easier to have done than to do myself - especially when others have better equipment and right tools!)

The car has a nasty vibration when the engine is spinning around 3200 rpm. That is with the car standing still which eliminates lots of other stuff. With the T5 upgrade, I got a new flywheel as the other looked. Are all the turbo-2.3 flywheels the same? (This may have been from a t-coupe.)

Can the crankshaft pulley be on wrong that would cause the vibration?
Do you have a one piece drive shaft or a 2 piece drive shaft?. If you have a one piece drive shaft, how thick is it?.

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Post by Joe62Tampa » Sat Oct 16, 2010 12:13 pm

it's a new 2 piece driveshaft that has been balanced.

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Post by DPDISXR4Ti » Sun Oct 17, 2010 9:25 am

Joe62Tampa wrote:Other stuff I had dealt with was having the DS aligned, (after new mounts) and re-aligning the exhaust so it wouldn't hang so low. (Some things are easier to have done than to do myself - especially when others have better equipment and right tools!)
Sounds good in theory, but what's your confidence level that he actually knows how to align the driveshaft correctly?
Brad

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Post by Joe62Tampa » Sun Oct 17, 2010 11:13 am

Aligning the driveshaft was a topic we discussed with respect to the runout angle. He conveyed his experience/knowledge via a story -- a good way to have done it with tact.

The vibration occurs when the car is at a stand still which rules out the driveshaft or the rear end. I need to find a better functioning tach -- I fixed the lazy tach; but it's still lazy.... I'm guessing the vibration occurs around 4k (rather than the 3200 rpm shown by the tach).

Are the SVO, Turbocoupe and XR4Ti flywheels all the same? (I purchased a new flywheel -- I think for the TurboCoupe -- rather than resurfacing mine as the cost wasn't that much different.)

At lower rpm's on the road, the car is rather smooth, not noisy and the vibration is nominal or nil.

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Post by DPDISXR4Ti » Sun Oct 17, 2010 11:59 am

Joe62Tampa wrote:The vibration occurs when the car is at a stand still which rules out the driveshaft or the rear end.
Ah, I didn't get that part - thought maybe you were running it up to speed on a lift or jackstands. In that case, you're right to look at the flywheel and/or clutch, especially given that you swapped a new one in. Maybe the flywheel is unbalanced?

I presume the new flywheel had dowels in place and you're not centering the clutch via the bolts alone, yes? When I first got my car years ago, it had a nasty vibration. There were no dowels at all, and the clutch was "centered" (or not) by just the bolts alone.
Brad

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Post by Joe62Tampa » Sun Oct 17, 2010 6:00 pm

What dowels? :shock:
The flywheel only went on one way and it seemed to set right onto the back of the crankshaft without holding it prior to bolting into place.

Like the clutch assembly, I tightened the flywheel in several passes. As best I recall -- drats I didn't take photos of new flywheel -- it looked like the old one. Following are a couple pictures of the original one, which doesn't seem to have any areas for alignment. I'm fairly certain the new one looked as this one does.

installed, prior to removal
Image

backside view (this afternoon)
Image

I have other reference pictures I can upload if need be. (I stopped at the auto parts store where I purchased it from and we printed some views of the Merkur, SVO and Thunderbird TurboCoupe.)

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Post by hEaT » Sun Oct 17, 2010 6:27 pm

IIRC, the dowels are just those three pins sticking out between the clutch bolt holes on the flywheel which center it.
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Post by 85xr » Sun Oct 17, 2010 7:23 pm

the dowel pins align the pressure plate. the clutch is aligned with the alignment tool(usually included with the purchase of the clutch kit).
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Post by hEaT » Sun Oct 17, 2010 9:39 pm

85xr wrote:the dowel pins align the pressure plate. the clutch is aligned with the alignment tool(usually included with the purchase of the clutch kit).
Correct, my bad.
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