Where to begin with upgrades?

XR4Ti / Sierra / Sierra Cosworth Discussions - Questions, problem resolution, general talk, technical tips and modifications.
johnsmerkur
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Where to begin with upgrades?

Post by johnsmerkur » Tue Oct 26, 2010 8:44 pm

Im new to turbo cars so I want to build my merkur a little bit, has new engine, full 3 inch exhaust with flowmaster, and everything else is stock as far as I know. Just want to know where to start with upgrades, I just ordered yellow konis all the way around and I found ground control coilovers but just the front, so if anyone know where to get the rears. I want to take this car to motocross races next year so Im trying to get the suspension done first but want to get around 275 maybe 300 horse out of this eventually. So just like some more info about the car thanks

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merkurdriver
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Post by merkurdriver » Tue Oct 26, 2010 10:22 pm

3" exhaust is a good start, next maybe the "big" VAM air meter and ECU to match. Add an intercooler into the mix around the same time as the ECU swap.

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divinez
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Post by divinez » Tue Oct 26, 2010 11:31 pm

zac.
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86XR4Ti5SPD
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Post by 86XR4Ti5SPD » Wed Oct 27, 2010 8:44 pm

A few additional simple updates I'd suggest are BAT's short-shift kit (I cut mine down another inch since my leather knob was a little tall) and a remote heat sink-mounted TFI for improved reliability. Obvious considerations for your autoX plans are bigger wheels/tires and maybe the rear disk conversion. Gook luck with it.
Ed, Nashville
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John V
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Re: Where to begin with upgrades?

Post by John V » Thu Oct 28, 2010 12:01 am

johnsmerkur wrote:Im new to turbo cars so I want to build my merkur a little bit, has new engine, full 3 inch exhaust with flowmaster, and everything else is stock as far as I know. Just want to know where to start with upgrades, I just ordered yellow konis all the way around and I found ground control coilovers but just the front, so if anyone know where to get the rears. I want to take this car to motocross races next year so Im trying to get the suspension done first but want to get around 275 maybe 300 horse out of this eventually. So just like some more info about the car thanks
What kind of races?
John Vanlandingham
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CALL =-> (206) 431-9696 <-= CALL

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Post by JimG » Thu Oct 28, 2010 10:00 am

Welcome to the Merkur community!!

I consider the Rear Disc conversion the best mod that I have made to my XR and strongly recommend it.
- Replacing the trans with a WC T-5 would be the next especially if you are going to Auto-X the car on a regular basis.
- An Intercooler is a "must".
- As for coil overs check out MC2 Racing www.mc2racing.com for some good Merkur specific info & products. Also the XR used shocks in the rear not struts, so coil overs are not applicable.
- Consider a different Turbo.

Mark your calender for the first weekend in June - Its the Ford Nationals in Carlisle, PA THE largest gathering of Merkurs! A great opportunity to kick tires, see what others have done to their cars and have a good time!
Jim Gosses
86 XR4TI, 165K, IC, RR, PBR Fronts, T-bird Rear Discs
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Post by John V » Thu Oct 28, 2010 12:33 pm

JimG wrote:Welcome to the Merkur community!!

I consider the Rear Disc conversion the best mod that I have made to my XR and strongly recommend it.
- Replacing the trans with a WC T-5 would be the next especially if you are going to Auto-X the car on a regular basis.
- An Intercooler is a "must".
- As for coil overs check out MC2 Racing www.mc2racing.com for some good Merkur specific info & products.
Also the XR used shocks in the rear not struts, so coil overs are not applicable.

- Consider a different Turbo.

Mark your calender for the first weekend in June - Its the Ford Nationals in Carlisle, PA THE largest gathering of Merkurs! A great opportunity to kick tires, see what others have done to their cars and have a good time!
John, as you see from the highlighted bit above, there is lots of opinions in these forums but many, MANY are truly baffling that they are held and repeated.
"coilovers are not applicable" is just one bizarre one.
Here is a rear coilover supplied by Ford themselves:
Image

Those are just a bit spendy since they bodies on those are magnesium, but here is the same units but with steel bodies, indentical internally, and same valving:
Image

In conjunction with using rear coilovers you might hear, if you talk to the wrong people who really not think things thru, that moving the spring from the original position to the shock position "will stress the bodyshell" or the shock mounts...
This is one of the many opinions thrown around which, by endless repetition, has become "lore' or really more a Merkur "fable".

Springs to not multiply force, the shock or struts resistance to moving does.

what I'm gently hinting at is that there is a massive amount of things repeated that are just flat wrong and people repeat things things more as a way of "fitting in" and what they think is "helping" when often it sends people in the wrong direction.

Be cautious, ask lots of questions, make sure the answers are thought out and make some actual sense before you spend money on things which will make you, ultimately, unhappy with your car.

And example is the Borg-Warner T5 conversion. Endlessly people say "I put a T5 in and the car is transformed" when a glance at the ratios of the original box and the say for example V8 Mustang box shows the ratios are very nearly the same ratios.
Worse is when people advise using the dreaded t-bird T5. The Xr box already has a 1st gear that is a bit "shorter' than ideal; the T-bird box gives a first gear fit for a pick-up---a granny low, making first gear nearly useless...

So watch out for the typical "friendly" and "helpful" advice. It is often well intentioned but not thought through.
John Vanlandingham
Sleezattle WA USA
CALL =-> (206) 431-9696 <-= CALL

http://www.rallyrace.net/jvab/

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Post by JimG » Thu Oct 28, 2010 1:08 pm

My BAD! I had just checked out the MC2 site which did not list or make any reference to coil overs for the rear and ran with it, a lesson learned.

Regarding the T-5 especially for AutoX I would consider a stronger trans that will take more abuse, gear ratios should be carefully selected and there are many performance trans builders. When I've AutoXed my car I've always thought that first gear could be "longer". For street use ( especially my driving ) The T-9 is fine as long as you don't abuse it.

Again sorry for the bad info
Jim Gosses
86 XR4TI, 165K, IC, RR, PBR Fronts, T-bird Rear Discs
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Post by Grayson » Thu Oct 28, 2010 2:05 pm

Well, aside from the question as to whether or not there is value to performing a rear coilover conversion, you're not going to be able to use a threaded sleeve kit to convert your rear Koni Yellows to coilovers. I haven't seen a single OEM-style rear damper that has any sort of provision (snap ring grooves, weld bead, collar, etc) that would allow a threaded sleeve or spring perch to attach to the body.

Here is a discussion on coilovers - front and rear - for the XR4Ti:

http://www.mc2racing.com/tech/20050920a/index.html

As for motocross, I don't think all those guys jumping their motorcycles in the air will want to line up against an XR4Ti. If you are indeed looking to autocross, however, consider the rules as desired. You can throw a T5 and rear coilovers in the car if you want, but keep in mind that those modifications will send you straight to C Prepared or Street Modified, and even with 300 horsepower you'll get destroyed. If you don't care about winning, and you just want to tear it up, then mod away. If you want to participate in a class with the potential for winning, don't mod your way out of it.

The fastest autocross XR4Ti on the planet in all classes runs a T9 and stock-location springs. Just something to keep in mind.

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Post by DPDISXR4Ti » Fri Oct 29, 2010 12:29 am

Since we seem to be focusing on rear coil-overs, a couple additional comments are in order for an honest and accurate picture....

1) There are fitment issues. The spring fights for space with the body, and the body is not easily knocked out of the way in this area. It can be remedied, but must be planned for.

2) Before the factory fitted coil-overs to this platform, they upgraded the control arm to have gusseted mounts. It's not a requirement to do this, but given how critical this mount becomes if you remove the stock spring, it's something to consider - either upgrading the existing mount or "upgrading" to the Scorpio STA which has the gusseted mounts.
Brad

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Post by johnsmerkur » Fri Oct 29, 2010 1:59 am

ok yes i meant autocross not motocrosshaha, and when we are talking about rear coilovers I just want adjustable springs in the rear, I dont want the spring on the shock, Im new to everything on these cars im use to domestic v8 cars, I read the mc2 article so it says fronts are good but not the rears so do i just get different springs? Thanks for all the input

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Post by DPDISXR4Ti » Fri Oct 29, 2010 9:52 am

Our cars share the same stock spring size with most roundy-round race cars, so there is a huge selection of reasonably-priced springs available when staying with the stock configuration. So yes, if you're going to increase the spring rate in the front, you want to do so, in roughly the same proportion, in the rear.

The one thing you'll find however is that R&Ring the springs on these cars is a bit of a chore. I've got a plan to "fix" that, but have yet to make much progress....
http://forum.merkurclub.com/forum/viewt ... sta+spring
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Post by DSPXR4ti » Fri Oct 29, 2010 1:42 pm

DPDISXR4Ti wrote:Our cars share the same stock spring size with most roundy-round race cars, so there is a huge selection of reasonably-priced springs available when staying with the stock configuration. So yes, if you're going to increase the spring rate in the front, you want to do so, in roughly the same proportion, in the rear.

The one thing you'll find however is that R&Ring the springs on these cars is a bit of a chore. I've got a plan to "fix" that, but have yet to make much progress....
http://forum.merkurclub.com/forum/viewt ... sta+spring
Well the good thing is I have found a coilover kit for the 5.5" spring that will go over the stock upper body spring locator so that you don't have remove it to put a 2.5 spring/coilover kit (for me I can't remove said body part because of the SCCA rules) so you can raise or lower the XR in the rear for more/less rake. Parts are coming soon so I'll let you all know how it turns out.

Hey Brad; my thing about easy spring removal is how fast we all could change springs out right now.

Ben
85 DSP XR4ti, 2009 Solo 2 National Champion, burns muffler, 3in exhaust, Mc2 Full suspension, 325 hps & 328tqr, GMR Intake, Wilwood brakes, Eaton LSD, stand alone ECU. Working on being SM National Champion.

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Post by DPDISXR4Ti » Fri Oct 29, 2010 3:36 pm

DSPXR4ti wrote:Well the good thing is I have found a coilover kit for the 5.5" spring that will go over the stock upper body spring locator
This stuff from Day Motorsports Ben?

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Post by DSPXR4ti » Fri Oct 29, 2010 4:01 pm

DPDISXR4Ti wrote:
DSPXR4ti wrote:Well the good thing is I have found a coilover kit for the 5.5" spring that will go over the stock upper body spring locator
This stuff from Day Motorsports Ben?

Image
Yeah.. that would have been nice but those parts do not fit over the stock bump stop on the rear of an XR.

What I have found is a coilover kit that will fit inside a 5.5" spring (maybe 5.0" spring) but what I'm not sure of is the ID of the aluminum threaded tube and if it will fit over that bump stop thing, I'm hopeing it's going to be thick enough that I could have machine out without making it so weak that it will crack, break or just deform. It should be here next week.

Ben
85 DSP XR4ti, 2009 Solo 2 National Champion, burns muffler, 3in exhaust, Mc2 Full suspension, 325 hps & 328tqr, GMR Intake, Wilwood brakes, Eaton LSD, stand alone ECU. Working on being SM National Champion.

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