Scorpio Master Cylinder & Pump into XR

[Esteban]

Re-hosting the pics.

[Esteban]

I have one of these units for sale. PM me if interested.

[Chris_12]

Re-hosting the pics.

Thanks

I have one of these units for sale. PM me if interested.

Already got one. Finally get around to putting it in this month.

[my8950]

Re-hosting the pics.

Thanks!

[my8950]

Re-hosting the pics.

Thanks!

Could you post one more time?

[DPDISXR4Ti]

Found a few more cars that have the Teves mark 2 electric pump booster system.. 1990s thunderchicken SC, passat, Saab 900, Cadillac circa 1989.
I pulled a good bomb/accumulator off a Cadillac that's good for 25 presses until the pedal goes rock hard.

Was wondering about those other cars that use the Teves Mark 2 booster... Are they all identical to the one used in the Scorpio, or are there differences from application to application?

This link would suggest they are, perhaps only minor, differences...
https://www.powerbrakeservice.net/teaelhybrbop.html

Lots of hits when I search Cadillac and Teves Mark 2 booster such as these...
https://forums.aaca.org/topic/148112-ca ... s-experts/

Here's a good description of the system, as used on the '87/8 Turbo coupe and early Super Coupes...
https://turbotbird.com/thread-troublesh ... ing-system

And just found this - the master list of vehicles that use the Teves Mark 2...
https://www.aa1car.com/library/abs_list.htm

TEVES MARK 2 ABS (4-wheel, Integral)
1985 to 1989 Lincoln Continental
1985 to 1992 Lincoln Mark VII
1986 to 1989 Buick LeSabre
1986 to 1990 Buick Electra, Park Avenue
1986 to 1989 Cadillac Fleetwood Brougham
1986 to 1990 Cadillac DeVille
1986 to 1990 Oldsmobile 98
1986 to 1990 Pontiac 6000 STE
1987 to 1992 Ford Thunderbird
1987 to 1992 Mercury Cougar
1987 to 1993 Saab 9000
1988 to 1989 Cadillac Eldorado, Seville
1988 to 1989 Buick Reatta, Riviera
1988 to 1989 Merkur Scorpio
1988 to 1990 Oldsmobile Delta 88, Toronado
1988 to 1991 Peugeot 505
1988 to 1990 Pontiac Bonneville & SSE
1991 to 1993 Saab 900
1991 to 1993 Volkswagen Passat

[my8950]

I'm curious/wondering a few things about this unit.
1 - Has anyone found a sort of internal/cutaway diagram of the master cylinder of this piece showing what ports go where? I'm comparing this to a valve body drawing that shows the circuit for each oil passage.

2 - Is this part in the Scorpio manual? I do not have a Scorpio, or manual, but curious if there is information in the manual.

I'm putting this unit in my XR, but trying to learn a little more about it.
Thanks!

[andyofcolumbusmerkur]

I have the scorpio manual (the big 4 inch thick thing) someplace. If I can find it I will post up any diagrams.

[thesameguy]

I just gotta say that I am stunned that you are installing a piece of yesteryear technology... The industry moved past this stuff in the '90s. If you're concerned about losing vacuum in your booster, Bosch and Hella both make an electric vacuum pump designed specifically to supplement engine vacuum for a conventional brake booster. For example, this is from an '00s Audi:

https://www.rockauto.com/en/moreinfo.ph ... 2&jsn=2247

Some sort of vacuum pump is what you'll find on every car after 1994 - many are engine driven now, but for a good long time they were electric.

People in Saabland are panicked about the lack of availability of the pump and accumulator for the Teves system. I really have a hard time wrapping my head around installing something that is definitely gonna become a problem in the future.

[john keefe]

I just gotta say that I am stunned that you are installing a piece of yesteryear technology... The industry moved past this stuff in the '90s. If you're concerned about losing vacuum in your booster, Bosch and Hella both make an electric vacuum pump designed specifically to supplement engine vacuum for a conventional brake booster. For example, this is from an '00s Audi:

https://www.rockauto.com/en/moreinfo.ph ... 2&jsn=2247

Really like the idea. This looks like a 3, or 4-wire connector. Any ideas on how this get wired? Additional sensor required in-line from another vacuum hose, or at the tree?

I just did the same kind of thing for a neighbor's '56 Bel Air, using this kit: https://www.jegs.com/p/Comp-Cams/Comp-C ... 0||P_SKU|0

The sensor has been problematic... the one in the kit crapped out within a week, and the replacement (upgrade?) has a completely different weatherproof connector. After a little creative wiring, works fine.

[thesameguy]

It's just a two wire connector. There is a sensor in the car that reports to the ECM, and the ECM commands the pump off or on. You could pretty easily do the same thing and just use a sensor to run a relay to run the pump... you just need to know where you want that vacuum to be. "Vacuum switch" is a thing, eg:

https://anver.com/vacuum-components/vac ... -adj-ncno/

I know '90s Saabs have an electric pump too, but I'm not sure how it works. I don't *think* it's controlled by any of the computer modules, so it may be self-contained. I'll see if I can find anything in the FSM.

Edit: Here's how the Audi pump works:

https://www.pelicanparts.com/techarticl ... cement.htm

[DPDISXR4Ti]

If you're concerned about losing vacuum in your booster, Bosch and Hella both make an electric vacuum pump designed specifically to supplement engine vacuum for a conventional brake booster.

I think the biggest driver for installing these in XR's is saving space by loosing the booster. I get that there are other, more modern ways of doing this with a hydro-boost setup. The Scorpio Teves setup is probably the most plug-n-play, and it's stand-alone, simple design makes it attractive.

Indeed the accumulator does seem to be the most common point of failure, and when I stumbled across a few threads in the Saab, Jag, Reatta, Cadillac, etc forums, that does seem to be the most frequent topic of discussion. Interesting to note that the early 90's Teves Mark 4 setup uses a similar looking but different accumulator. I wonder if it was any more reliable; I read one thread where someone was making an adapter to use that one on a Mark 2 like ours.

[thesameguy]

Yeah, I definitely understand the application in a swap scenario... I personally would find some other solution, but I get it. But installing it just to install it? Eh.

I have read numerous "alternative accumulator" approaches but seen no success stories. At the end of the day, a hydraulic accumulator is a hydraulic accumulator so as long as the volume is there to support repeat stopping it's gonna work. The rest is just packaging, more or less. Still, it's an approach to power assist that has been dead for nigh 30 years. I would do anything to not get involved with 30-year-dead technology.

If the problem you're solving isn't a packaging issue, but just low vacuum, then all you need is a way to create vacuum. In the effort to chase MPGs, modern cars with automatic transmissions tend to have problems generating sufficient vacuum for safe braking. From the '90s through the '10s that was often solved with electric pumps. It's such a thing now that most engines have vacuum pumps designed in, mechanically driven. My Jeep has one on the timing belt, my newer Saab has one driven off the crank and my older Saab has one driven off the cam.

"Hydroboost" is a whole other thing - that's power assist from (usually) the power steering system. Every major manufacturer has something similar for when "regular old vacuum assist" won't work, either from low engine vacuum (eg, diesel) to needing more assist (eg, a motorhome). It's worth noting that Ford did use hydroboost on quad cam SN95s:

https://lmr.com/item/LRS-71432/mustang- ... gJKZ_D_BwE

and it's been used to solve packaging problems in some other cars... I think it was Panoz that used it?

You get to lose a booster & reclaim that space, but you do have to plumb in some other source of hydraulic pressure, and the power steering system is the obvious choice.

I would choose ANY of these over 30 year old unobtanium parts! I would even look into that "used for two years" Mustang unit! (I think a similar part was used on pickups for quite a bit longer)