Finally good news/ strut questions

xrpat · Post by **xrpat** » Thu Aug 26, 2004 11:09 pm

I'm happy to say I finally have soom good news, the Merkur is finally running and seems O.K. Firstly the source of my T-5 bad vibes was a shot differential(pinion shaft too loose),couple this with a not so tight tail shaft bushing in the new T-5 and the one piece drive shaft would just gyrate like a jump rope as I cruised down the road. This lead to me replacing the whole rear end with one from an A/T XR, which just introduced more problems upon refitting the new parts. The whole thing sat WAY too high up in the tunnel now,problem?, well it was a miracle but apparently the entire beam/subframe/carrier was COMPLEATLY twisted out of shape, yes that massive tube with all of the gussets was uniformly distorted, every last hole lining up perfectly upon reassembly but on a whole compleatly useless.After popping out the poly bushings and installing them once again in yet another beam and re-attaching the control arms and e-brake cable, the whole thing went in perfectly and restored the proper placement of the diff. BTW after replacing these poly bushings twice I can tell everybody that it isn't a very difficult job, no special tools just a bench vise,washers and a very sharp woodworker's chisel.Took it for a ride tonight and things went well, a little gutless (more like entirely) below 3500 rpms and then some power to about 5-5500 rpms, man this thing is thrashy. After taking it into the hills I noticed it sticks to the road ok but handles like a Town Car, real soft, so so stearing response. My question is which struts offer the best street handling?Boge?Bilsteins?Spax?Konis or KYB? I have heard that the KYB gr2s are just too damn soft and that the Gas adjust are ok for the rear. The last owner installed carquest components which I can hardly tolerate, I have new Bat HD springs in the rear along with all new bushings, the front has stock springs with new control arms and poly swaybar bushings. If the car handles nice then it makes all of the grunting and whaling from under the hood a lot easier to live with.

Quasi Mofo · Post by **Quasi Mofo** » Fri Aug 27, 2004 11:16 am

What wheels and tires do you run?

I have stock 15" wheels with 195/60vr15s or aftermarket 16" with 205/50vr16s depending on occasion. I have BAD shocks and original springs in it right now (I just got the black car) and my turn in is crisp and ride, while a little spongy it is VERY Merkur.

I am working on a 2000 Cougar seat conversion for the stock frames to get the driver down off the roof. I have used Escort ZX2 seats and they helped out a TON! You felt more in control and that helped the feel of the road on your tuckus a bunch.

I had APC seats in my Competition Coupe for three days before that got sold (WORST MISTAKE OF MY LIFE!). Those were marvelous and I am 6'3" and 290 lbs... I barely fit in the car and the seats but oooohhhh the drivin sensation was most excellent.

You should get a firmer spring up front before worrying about the strut, or do both at the same time, the dramatic difference between the high rate rears and OEM fronts is likely being felt as a mushy front.

Hope we helped a little.

88_WRC_Replica · Post by **88_WRC_Replica** » Fri Aug 27, 2004 12:24 pm

I've used the following.

KYB: Soft yes but not too soft they are great for HWY use but lack the compression for the hard twisty roads.
Spax: Adjustable good stiffness a little too harsh on the HWY on the stiff setting a little too soft on the soft setting.
Gaz: Great all around great adjustability and finish.
Leda: Full coilover the best all around setup. Fully custom setup adjustable bump and rebound. Big $$$$$$.

I would also look at what tires your running at the moment I'm running Falken Azenis 205/50/15's on bone stock 16 year old suspension. Itâ€™s great on the HWY but naturally too soft on the back roads, but the tires hide most of that. I can still push hard on the twisty roads

My suggestion get a set of adjustable Gaz from Bat use them with your springs. Also get some good rubber like the Azenis or Kumho MX and you will have a great setup.

My setup path goes as follows;
1) Replace worn bushings and suspension parts
2) Install good ultra high performance tires.
3) Replace shocks and struts with adjustable shocks and struts.
4) Replace springs with either coilovers or good high performance spring.
5) Replace sway bars with larger units.

Ghost · Post by **Ghost** » Fri Aug 27, 2004 1:31 pm

I've used Konis for the last 8 years and they're still going strong. They can be adjusted very stiff or nice and soft - I run mine at about 75% stiffness everyday and dial them back to 50% stiff when I have to deal with crappy roads.

Jacek

xrpat · Post by **xrpat** » Fri Aug 27, 2004 1:43 pm

I have the stock 15" basket weave rims with some General Exclaims or something, after last nights romp I can see that they are not going to be any good, very vague and they chirp around some fairly slow turns.I am waiting on installing the new Bat springs up front because I don't want to do the spring/strut job twice (who does), if these struts are rubbish and I feel they are I wan't to do the whole thing at once, which brings me to the question "which struts are best for agressive street use". It's not just a subjective soft feeling, the car tends to bottom out over some realy slow "lumps" in the road.I was also going to replace the seats with some corbeaus but ran out of moolah, at 6'3" 180 its a tight fit with the current seats so I know yer pain.BTW what are the "GAZ" struts,didn't see them in the Bat catalog.

Quasi Mofo · Post by **Quasi Mofo** » Fri Aug 27, 2004 2:23 pm

Remember the feel is in the spring, the strut controls the springs oscillation. Different struts have different "control systems" and bore diameters which cause them to control the oscillation slower or faster.

The best strut I have used was a revalved set of Konis that cost me near a grand when I was through with them. Not for the faint of heart.

Our standard KYBs with OEM springs were top 10 FTD autocrossers consistently, and top 2-3 in class. We would get picked on by a guy in an SVO pretty often but never blown out of the water.

Shocks Struts (or Dampers in general) all are simple devices that are blamed for tons of tuning issues wether it is their fault or not! Get some quality shocks, the best your budget allows, and get those springs installed, then go get some 205/50r15 Falken Azenis and scare yourself!

I will post pics of the Cougar seat conversion, It will help you immensely!

xrpat · Post by **xrpat** » Fri Aug 27, 2004 6:41 pm

Thanks for the info Quasi Mofo, I have a seat of new gr2/gas adj in my Saab, as well as a set of Gas adjusts in my R5,both sets have made the grade in my opinion, especially the ones in the Renault they are very good. I would gladly buy a set for the XR but bad press for the KYBs keeps poping up from time to time, for various cars.I would just hate to get stuck with a set of struts I'm not crazy about. In your experience how did the kybs stack up against other set ups, your Konis? How much head room did you gain when replacing the seat? Even with a shaved head I'm juuuuuust making contact with the headliner and thats with the seat all homied-out...hmmm maybe thats why that guy wanted to race me last night, I had the car on the road for maybe 8 minutes and some guy in a Saab starts ridding my ass, bliping the throttle, He probaly saw some stupid kid (me) all sprawled out pimpin his Merk with the deep exhaust ( set up strictly so I can drive around and fine tune/evaluate changes made to the car), little does he know I'm just deep in thought nearly oblivious of his existence listening to Debussey!

Quasi Mofo · Post by **Quasi Mofo** » Sat Aug 28, 2004 1:34 am

Like I said earlier the Konis were hands down the best... but that didn't mean I didn't appreciate the quality of the KYBs. As with any manufacturing process a few faulty pieces will slip through now and again, most KYB bad press is from some hanyauk that didn't understand that just slapping a new set of shocks on a 20 year old car with 20 year old springs might NOT result in a car that handles like a Z06. There is a way to benchmark performance upgrades and it is VERY expensive:

1: Completely replace EVERY part that may affect your feel for the road with an OEM piece. Starting in no particular order - tires, bushings, bearings, ball joints, shocks, struts, springs, rack and pinion, tie rod ends, power steering pump, engine, brakes, shifter, seats, steering wheel.
2: Run a controlled battery of tests in an environment conducive to repeatability (ever wonder why Ford has that big proving ground in the desert?

)
3: Replace one single part with a "Performance Minded Upgrade" and repeat tests.
4: Replace part and repeat tests.
5: Replace NEXT part and so on!

By the time you are done with the program you will despise the car, take up mathematics, move to Montana and create a UPS account under an alias... (Anyone get this one? It's late and I start telling jokes for my own response after 11:00!)

The experience you already have with the manufacturer should be your guide. If you feel they are a quality provider and your budget supports your purchase, then go for it! In reference I have KYBs on 3 of 7 vehicles, Monroe Reflex on 1, Koni Reds on 1, Koni Yellows on 1, and Carquest / Gabriel cheapo specials on the last. You would die to know which is fastest through an autocross! I have less into the set of shocks for the fastest car than I do in one strut for the slowest one!

NEXT SUBJECT!

With the Escort ZX2 seat I can sit mostly upright WITH a helmet on. Arms still too far outstretched for my driving style and I have to compensate by sitting "NASCAR close" to the steering wheel, but then again "NASCAR close" to a 290lb lardass might be perfect for a 185lb man! I am all belly so EVERYTHING is close to rubbing up there... REALLY

!!!

The Cougar seat is quite a bit more shallow than the ZX2 seats and the bolster system and height is GREAT for a tall guy. The downside is the LH seat recline function is electrical and you LOSE THIS FUNCTION when converting to the Merk frame. (HINT: Before you remove old frame from seat MAKE SURE THE SEAT IS AT THE RIGHT ANGLE!!! IT IS MISERABLE TO CORRECT IT AFTERWARDS!) The passenger side is rather easy as it is a manual seat. On both I just got out the rotary tool and clearanced the holes appropriately to fit the front bolts through then measured and marked where the rear holes will go through the existing frame, a few passes with the drill and some clean up with the Dremel and daddy gots a new office chair!

The Cougar seat fits the design and space of the Merk very well. Mine are dark grey cloth and I will be putting black carpeting down as well as deleting the rear seat and carpeting that area all the way back. A hinged, carpeted aluminum cover will hide my lawn and garden battery mounted in the spare tire well. All of the combined blacks and grays should look pretty sweet when I am done.

When I finish both seats I will set up a picture story detailing the fun. I have only done the passenger because I screwed up and didn't follow my advice on the seat back angle on the driver seat! Give ma a few days and the eVil will be flowing from the old girl!

xrpat · Post by **xrpat** » Sat Aug 28, 2004 10:07 am

Well...I think I'll go KYB then. The price is right (very right) $199 at shox.com, the next step up Sachs/Boge looks to be about $330 and then the Konis...well lets just forget about those for now. If I understand you correctly then you had your fastest times with the carquest components, now I'm not saying that this is impossible but I have been working as a professional mechanic for 2 years now and I can not begin to describe how much I hat...no LOATH carquest products, the quality is ..is well there is none! Now look at me I'm trembling with rage...but seriously I can see the law of diminishing returns certainly applies to shocks and struts, is a Koni 2-3x "better" than it's KYB counterpart, not likely.The struts will have to be the last project for a while as we are moving the hell out of CT, to damn expensive up here, i'll just have to keep pimp'n this thing with the seat back reclined like a beach chair for a little while longer.
Thanks for all of the info!

Alex20 · Post by **Alex20** » Sat Aug 28, 2004 10:58 am

xrpat BAT has some new struts and shocks, justed looked at there site yesterday. Maybe you might like there new ones better.

Quasi Mofo · Post by **Quasi Mofo** » Sat Aug 28, 2004 1:58 pm

xrpat wrote:If I understand you correctly then you had your fastest times with the carquest components, now I'm not saying that this is impossible but I have been working as a professional mechanic for 2 years now and I can not begin to describe how much I hat...no LOATH carquest products, the quality is ..is well there is none! Now look at me I'm trembling with rage...!

There is a catch... The car with the cheapo shocks is a 1750 lb 250horse shell (bone stock small block) with a HIGHLY tweaked and modified suspension and no roof!

click on pic

click on pic

Wait until it gets the good engine and tires!