Exhaust fitting?

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socal1200r
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Re: Exhaust fitting?

Post by socal1200r »

In XS 7 wrote:Are you using the special nuts for the turbo? the ones that are not completely round but instead oval and they lock on once you tight them up? otherwise the regular nuts will keep getting loose all the time. :cheers
I would have to say "no", because they look like regular nuts to me. The two that I bought for the upper mounting studs were Grade 8, and they fit a 17mm wrench. The ones on the lower mounting studs, which I found out yesterday, take a 14mm wrench. But those on the bottom look like regular nuts, just with the flatter, washer-type bottoms on them. I'm going to the hardware store, and see if I can get four nuts that will fit a 14mm wrench, which might make it easier to tighten the ones up top. Might get some new washers or lock washers while I'm at it, since I apparently don't have any of the special turbo nuts, and the lock washers might help keep them in place.
Robert Brooks
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Re: Exhaust fitting?

Post by SvoSierra »

I have put double nuts on the turbo on some cars. A grade 8 to crank it tight, then a cheapo grade 5 on top of that to lock it in place. Also studded the turbo to elbow and doubled the nuts. No more broken elbow bolts. :)
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socal1200r
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Re: Exhaust fitting?

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Since it looks like the space around the top mounting studs is less than the bottom mounting studs, I decided to switch the 14mm nuts on the bottom to the top, and use the new 17mm nuts on the bottom, all with new lock washers. So I jacked up the car and swapped the nuts bottom to top, new 17mm ones on the bottom, with lock washers and some anti-seize. Tightened everything up short of stripping the nuts, but I did notice while I was underneath, that even with all four nuts tightened down, I could still see a little daylight between the two mounting surfaces. I started the car, and sure enough, it felt like I had a leak along the top gasket.

My patience meter was pegged by now, so I was done screwing around with these mounting bolts. I was in no mood to entertain the thought of having to remove the turbo and header in order to install a new gasket, so I took the easy way out. I bought some JB Weld cold mix, and put down a nice layer of mix along the top and bottom edges of where the gasket is. The sides didn't appear to be leaking, so hopefully this JB Weld cold mix will seal the exhaust leak. The cold mix has a higher psi and temperature rating than the quick mix, so I'm keeping my fingers crossed this problem will be solved. I'll find out tomorrow, after giving the mix 20+ hours to cure.

Then I can get the transmission looked at...
Robert Brooks
1987 XR4Ti, white, AT
Norfolk, VA
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Re: Exhaust fitting?

Post by socal1200r »

Well, the JB Weld cold mix covering the header/turbo gasket failed miserably. It totally cooked off after about 20 minutes of driving around town. Looks like I'll have to wire brush off what's left on the top and bottom, clean the areas with some brake cleaner, and try something else...any suggestions?

Looks like my next experiment will be with either Permatex muffler/tailpipe sealer (rated to 2000 degrees), or Permatex ultra copper sealer (rated to 700 degrees). We'll see how one of these works out...
Robert Brooks
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Re: Exhaust fitting?

Post by In XS 7 »

I would take both parts off the car and let a machine shop resurface the place where the parts joint together use a turbo gasket and get it done once and for all, I think it will be easier, faster and at the end cheaper than spending money trying many different things that will be only like band-aids.But that's me. I think some of the JB cold weld is now in the gap/leak between the turbo and the many-fold. I don't know how is the weather over there, but right here is snowing already and I really hate to be working on the car with this weather so I will look for the fast solution. :cheers
Miguel.
89 XR4Ti Monique; Waking up a real "Night/Mare-Coor".
T5, NPR IC, PIMP ECU, Walbro 255, Dual piston BOV, Manual BC, 3" exhaust, One piece Aluminum drive-shaft, mc2 LSD, Boport 1.5 cam, Ported and polish head, big valves, 80# injectors, Bob's log, (soon HY35).
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Re: Exhaust fitting?

Post by socal1200r »

Found a product called Blue Magic Quik Steel Extreme, rated up to 2400 degrees, comes in a little plastic jar. I cleaned off what was left of the JB Weld with a wire brush, sprayed some brake cleaner along the seam, then let it air dry. Mixed up the Quik Steel for a few minutes, then set about applying it along the top and bottom gasket seam. Poked some of it inside the gap with the edge of the spreader, then put another layer on top. The weather is cool and damp here right now, so it will take a little longer to fully cure. But I figure a good 24 hours should do it, so I'll fire it up after work tomorrow, and see if it still leaks.

While I was underneath the car, putting the Quik Steel along the bottom gasket seam, I looked for the vacuum shift modulator thing on the trans. I eventually found it, and the hose that attaches to it was loose. I put the hose back on the fitting, all the way down, so it's on there good and snug. I'm hoping that was my trans problem, so I'll found out when I take her out for an exhaust leak check tomorrow.

I really don't want the hassle of removing the turbo, header, IC piping, various hoses, water line, oil line, new strut tower bar, and anything else that would be in the way. So I'm keeping my fingers crossed that this Quik Steel stuff will seal the leak. If not, I think I'll make some room in the garage, park the car inside, and forget about it for a while.
Robert Brooks
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Re: Exhaust fitting?

Post by socal1200r »

Now I'm thinking it may be the downpipe connection up at the turbo. When I was underneath the car over the weekend, I could hear the chatter in the downpipe before the cat, so I'm thinking something's feeding that chatter into the exhaust somewhere. I'm fairly certain it's not up at the header, or the turbo mount, so the next likely culprit should be the downpipe connection. I'm going to take the car back to the muffler shop that installed it, and ask them to loosen then tighten the downpipe again. Should be easy to find out afterwards if that was it. If not, I might take another look at where the turbo mounts to the header. Might have them weld the turbo to the header, to eliminate that as the source. I just want the car to run as quiet as it did before I had the header and downpipe installed!
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Re: Exhaust fitting?

Post by In XS 7 »

The car will become a little more louder if you put a header and a 3" down pipe, that's normal, also if you are using a different muffler than the stock it too will make the car sound to change and that is normal too. :cheers
Miguel.
89 XR4Ti Monique; Waking up a real "Night/Mare-Coor".
T5, NPR IC, PIMP ECU, Walbro 255, Dual piston BOV, Manual BC, 3" exhaust, One piece Aluminum drive-shaft, mc2 LSD, Boport 1.5 cam, Ported and polish head, big valves, 80# injectors, Bob's log, (soon HY35).
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Re: Exhaust fitting?

Post by socal1200r »

Well, I guess if the muffler shop re-checks the downpipe, and welds up the top and bottom turbo flanges to the header, and it still makes that chatter, I'll chalk it up to what you just said: lighter exhaust manifold, 3" exhaust, and free-flow cat and muffler. Turning up the volume on the radio 2-4 notches should also take care of that chatter...!
Robert Brooks
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Re: Exhaust fitting?

Post by In XS 7 »

Also if you weld the turbo to the header you basically will make the header disposable, because if the turbo fail (and it will eventually) you will have to get another header and turbo, because you will not be able to break the welds with out destroying the header. :cheers
Miguel.
89 XR4Ti Monique; Waking up a real "Night/Mare-Coor".
T5, NPR IC, PIMP ECU, Walbro 255, Dual piston BOV, Manual BC, 3" exhaust, One piece Aluminum drive-shaft, mc2 LSD, Boport 1.5 cam, Ported and polish head, big valves, 80# injectors, Bob's log, (soon HY35).
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Re: Exhaust fitting?

Post by hEaT »

They welded the turbo to the manifold?? :esurprise :dunno
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Re: Exhaust fitting?

Post by socal1200r »

Went to the muffler shop, and they found a hard pipe that was rubbing against the down pipe. We traced it up top, and it was one of the heater core hoses, so they just zip tied them out of the way, and no more rubbing against the downpipe. And yes, they welded the turbo to the header, so I'm not getting any leaks from that area. However, using this stethoscope-looking thing, looks like we've narrowed it down the remaining noise to the last spark plug hole / last exhaust port at the header. I might try loosening all the header bolts again, then tightening that last bolt first, then do the rest in sequence, If the header flange isn't completely flat, that'll be a way to find out.

And yes, if I have to mess with the turbo/header again, I'll install the stock cast iron manifold back on and toss the header. That damn thing's been a nightmare from day one...
Robert Brooks
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Re: Exhaust fitting?

Post by CV12Steve »

I would expect the header to crack before the turbo goes, but you still end up chucking one good component with one bad.
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Re: Exhaust fitting?

Post by In XS 7 »

CV12Steve wrote:I would expect the header to crack before the turbo goes, but you still end up chucking one good component with one bad.
X2 I agree, all this thing could be fixed taking the header to a machine shop and get it resurfaced, some times the flanges get warp by the heat of the weld when they build them that's something to be expected but very easy to fix too.
Even when you get the kid to build it your self, they tell you to resurface the final product to make sure it's flat and no leaks. :cheers
Miguel.
89 XR4Ti Monique; Waking up a real "Night/Mare-Coor".
T5, NPR IC, PIMP ECU, Walbro 255, Dual piston BOV, Manual BC, 3" exhaust, One piece Aluminum drive-shaft, mc2 LSD, Boport 1.5 cam, Ported and polish head, big valves, 80# injectors, Bob's log, (soon HY35).
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Re: Exhaust fitting?

Post by socal1200r »

Well, the shop that installed the header should've checked to make sure the flange was flat against the block. I'm thru messing with this thing, because I've spent over $700 so far and wasted umpteen hours of my personal time, for the header and labor to install it. I've emailed the seller and asked him to send me a couple of new gaskets, and the muffler shop that did the exhaust work said they would install them for me. They legally couldn't install the header, but now that it's on there, they can do some work on it. Maybe these guys will get it right...
Robert Brooks
1987 XR4Ti, white, AT
Norfolk, VA
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