Merkur XR4Ti heavier then Sierra XR4i

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BanditKoval
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Merkur XR4Ti heavier then Sierra XR4i

Post by BanditKoval » Tue Dec 31, 2013 1:56 am

I would like to know exactly what makes the merkur xr4ti heavier then the sierra xr4i... because when you think about it ... the sierra has a 2.9l v6 and you would think that make the car heavier then its counterpart the 2.3l turbo merkur... its confusing..
1989 Merkur XR4Ti (Red):
  • -2.3l Turbo (new head, ranger cam, m11 turbo)
    -157k miles
    -C3 Auto
    -3" inch exhaust no cat w/ resonator
1995 Ford Mustang GT (Green):
  • -5.0l 302ci V8
    -154k miles
    -3.73 gearing, 4 speed auto
    -2.5" true dual exhaust no cats
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Re: Merkur XR4Ti heavier then Sierra XR4i

Post by merk23literturbo » Tue Dec 31, 2013 6:42 am

Federal Crash Standard equipment, like 5 mph bumpers.
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Re: Merkur XR4Ti heavier then Sierra XR4i

Post by GPz11 » Tue Dec 31, 2013 8:28 am

Also a 2.3 turbo isn't exactly a light engine.

IIRC: It's about the same weight as a 302.

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Re: Merkur XR4Ti heavier then Sierra XR4i

Post by DPDISXR4Ti » Tue Dec 31, 2013 11:16 am

GPz11 wrote:Also a 2.3 turbo isn't exactly a light engine.

IIRC: It's about the same weight as a 302.
True. Which makes it heavier than a 2.9.

Don mentioned the heavier bumpers; along with those there were a lot of body reinforcements in the XR4Ti, including the doors, which are much heavier than the Euro counterparts.
Brad

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Re: Merkur XR4Ti heavier then Sierra XR4i

Post by John V » Tue Dec 31, 2013 6:33 pm

GPz11 wrote:Also a 2.3 turbo isn't exactly a light engine.

IIRC: It's about the same weight as a 302.
you recall wrong...Or you may recall correctly that you read somebody--somebody who was just repeating what he'd read...
I ship engines on pallets. Limas, YBs, Volvo Redblocks, and I know what these various 4s weigh on a palett.
Andthe machine shop guys I work with---who are drag racers since the mid 60s BURST OUT LAUGHING when I tell them people say the 2300 LIMA weighs "about the same as SBF"

The 2300 isn't light but it isn't "heavy either"
A ready to start SBF is approx 180-190 lbs heavier. (unless you start talking aluminum heads, aftermarket intake manifolds etc---then about 120 lbs heavier
8 pistons, 8 rods, 2 heads and a pair of blocks Siamesed together weigh more than 4 pistons, 4 rods 1 head, 1 block
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CALL =-> (206) 431-9696 <-= CALL

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Re: Merkur XR4Ti heavier then Sierra XR4i

Post by espacef1fan » Wed Jan 01, 2014 1:38 am

John V wrote:
GPz11 wrote:Also a 2.3 turbo isn't exactly a light engine.

IIRC: It's about the same weight as a 302.
you recall wrong...Or you may recall correctly that you read somebody--somebody who was just repeating what he'd read...
I ship engines on pallets. Limas, YBs, Volvo Redblocks, and I know what these various 4s weigh on a palett.
Andthe machine shop guys I work with---who are drag racers since the mid 60s BURST OUT LAUGHING when I tell them people say the 2300 LIMA weighs "about the same as SBF"

The 2300 isn't light but it isn't "heavy either"
A ready to start SBF is approx 180-190 lbs heavier. (unless you start talking aluminum heads, aftermarket intake manifolds etc---then about 120 lbs heavier
8 pistons, 8 rods, 2 heads and a pair of blocks Siamesed together weigh more than 4 pistons, 4 rods 1 head, 1 block

That being said.....

Limas and SBFs crush fingers and engine bay parts in an equally effective manner....
Adam Escott
Fort Campbell,KY
Chinook Mechanic
89 XR with Outcast Body in Red
Duratec coming soon(unless you havea a better idea...)

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Re: Merkur XR4Ti heavier then Sierra XR4i

Post by KhanTyranitar » Wed Jan 01, 2014 12:28 pm

Yeah, if IIRC, the 2.3L would have to be lighter, because in stock form a Turbocoupe with manual trans is 10 hp peak less than the 5.0L T-Bird, yet the 2.3L Turbo is actually faster. The only way the less powerful of two cars that are otherwise the same can be faster is if its lighter. I could be wrong. But 2.3L are definitely lighter than 5.0L.

In the case of the Merkurs, the chassis has a lot of extra reinforcement. Sierras are basically inexpensive cans. They are tougher than some other cars, but they are not much of a car. Merkurs have thicker metal, various parts are made from multiple layers of metal, its just in general reinforced. The whole chassis is stiffer and more rigid than its Sierra counterpart. Increased strength usually means increased weight. The result is that with proper suspension, you get less twisting and flexing in the body, and in collisions, Merkurs do significantly better.
1987 Ford Thunderbird Turbocoupe
Fully rebuilt engine, ported head w/inserts, oversized valves, ranger cam, matched intake, 57 trim turbo, custom FMIC, Walbro fuel pump, Kirban FPR, #60 injectors, PIMP, Stinger exhaust, Tru-Performance cat, CAI w/Pro-Dry filter
1986 Merkur XR4Ti
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Re: Merkur XR4Ti heavier then Sierra XR4i

Post by XR4Tim » Thu Jan 02, 2014 5:13 pm

My 944 turbo engine weighed the same as my LS1 that I replaced it with.
Tim Bevan - OEM Part Haus
'85 XR4Ti - '97 E36 BMW - '86 LS1 951 - '63 Midget - '09 MINI - '12 Outback - '99 Discovery II - '02 S2000

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Re: Merkur XR4Ti heavier then Sierra XR4i

Post by John Brennan » Thu Jan 02, 2014 5:35 pm

LS1 is all-aluminum-- but then, so is the 951 engine...

Interesting.
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Re: Merkur XR4Ti heavier then Sierra XR4i

Post by XR4Tim » Fri Jan 03, 2014 1:39 pm

Pretty sure my 951 engine wasn't all aluminum. Maybe, though. Could have just been the cast iron manifold and wastegate pipes, but that thing was stinkin' heavy.
Tim Bevan - OEM Part Haus
'85 XR4Ti - '97 E36 BMW - '86 LS1 951 - '63 Midget - '09 MINI - '12 Outback - '99 Discovery II - '02 S2000

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Re: Merkur XR4Ti heavier then Sierra XR4i

Post by John Brennan » Fri Jan 03, 2014 2:23 pm

Said so when I Googled it... didn't give the weight, but at least aluminum for aluminum roughly equals iron for iron, and makes for a valid comparison.
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1989 XR4Ti 5-Speed
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Re: Merkur XR4Ti heavier then Sierra XR4i

Post by Larry Velk » Fri Jan 03, 2014 4:10 pm

It's quite odd, but finding comparable weights for various engines is very hard to do. Only guys who ship them have any real information. Some guys post weights with clutches, some with alternators, etc. If you internet search this topic you can barely get a correct weight on a 350 Chevy, much less something like an FE Ford with Al heads, intake and water pump - in other words, specific combos are very hard to nail down.
Unfortunately on the net guys just repeat often bad info.
Relative to the old XR - if you take off the bumpers and semi gut the car to paint it the car will sit quite a bit higher. In the book "Preparing the Sierra for motorsport" (not sure of the title, but I have the book) some of the front wheel well bracing is standard on our US spec XR's, but a "speed" part for the Euro version. Our fuel tank area is different, etc.
I took some scrap to the junkyard in our XR once and it weighed about 2 900, on their scales.
'86 928, black, 5sp, red full leather, 55k
(daily driver!)
'91 FZR 1000
'64 XKE FHC, in a thousand pieces
2003 BMW Ci (just like an XR!)
'89 XR, red family car

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BanditKoval
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Re: Merkur XR4Ti heavier then Sierra XR4i

Post by BanditKoval » Mon Jan 06, 2014 1:37 pm

Well then
1989 Merkur XR4Ti (Red):
  • -2.3l Turbo (new head, ranger cam, m11 turbo)
    -157k miles
    -C3 Auto
    -3" inch exhaust no cat w/ resonator
1995 Ford Mustang GT (Green):
  • -5.0l 302ci V8
    -154k miles
    -3.73 gearing, 4 speed auto
    -2.5" true dual exhaust no cats
Image

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Re: Merkur XR4Ti heavier then Sierra XR4i

Post by ford.scorpio » Sat Jan 11, 2014 3:12 am

FYI, xr4i that gave birth to XR4Ti is 2.8, not 2.9......majority of later pre-2.9 models were also mechanic fuel injection vs. EFI.....
A man meets another addict and says "oh yeah, I have a Merkur too!" and the other man says "no way!!!!! ............how many?"

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Re: Merkur XR4Ti heavier then Sierra XR4i

Post by CV12Steve » Tue Jan 14, 2014 9:59 pm

KhanTyranitar wrote:Yeah, if IIRC, the 2.3L would have to be lighter, because in stock form a Turbocoupe with manual trans is 10 hp peak less than the 5.0L T-Bird, yet the 2.3L Turbo is actually faster. The only way the less powerful of two cars that are otherwise the same can be faster is if its lighter.
Assuming they both have the same gearing and torque curve.
Stephen

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