Phenolic Intake Manifold Spacer

XR4Ti / Sierra / Sierra Cosworth Discussions - Questions, problem resolution, general talk, technical tips and modifications.
thesameguy
Level 7
Level 7
Posts: 1979
Joined: Mon Apr 18, 2005 5:06 pm
Location: Sacramento
Contact:

Re: Phenolic Intake Manifold Spacer

Post by thesameguy » Wed Feb 20, 2019 9:58 pm

Esteban wrote:
Wed Feb 20, 2019 2:03 pm
I have thought about that John. Gutted, dummy VAM with a connector harness that goes into the frame rail. Intercoolers are legal as long as it doesnt change the intake manifold orientation. Just remove the BOV/BPV.
You can do anything you want to the intake manifold so long as you preserve the original function - you have it face the ground 180 degrees backwards so long as the EGR/PCV are still present. You don't even have to run a stock one. "Intake manifold modifications" are explicitly legal as long as original function is maintained.

I put a 1985 manifold on a 1994 engine in my Saab and had no issues getting it approved. Zero hassle, explicitly exempt.

BOVs are not legal since they result in false air readings, but BPVs are 100% legal. I have an Audi 710N ("Bosch style") BPV on the XR and have for years. 100% legal.

We've all had this discussion before. Search "Appendix G" on the forum. I've posted it easily a half dozen times. :D

User avatar
Esteban
Level 7
Level 7
Posts: 1980
Joined: Wed Mar 24, 2010 2:07 am
Location: San Diego

Re: Phenolic Intake Manifold Spacer

Post by Esteban » Fri Feb 22, 2019 8:54 am

Must've been a change since the last time I checked the laws. This is the one I was familiar with:

Intake Manifolds
For the purposes of a Smog Check inspection, an aftermarket intake manifold that includes
provisions for the OEM emission controls (EGR, TAC, fuel injection, carburetor, thermal
switches, heat stove, exhaust cross-over etc.) is acceptable, provided the manufacturer
markets the manifold as a replacement for the factory original. The replacement manifold
may be made of a different material than the original, for example aluminum instead of cast
iron.

thesameguy
Level 7
Level 7
Posts: 1979
Joined: Mon Apr 18, 2005 5:06 pm
Location: Sacramento
Contact:

Re: Phenolic Intake Manifold Spacer

Post by thesameguy » Fri Feb 22, 2019 1:02 pm

That's really the gist of it. The language there suggests the manifold must be mass manufactured and sold, but that inferred and not implied. If you build a manifold, say it's a replacement, and it has the same provision, you're done. Obviously, a rotated manifold from 40bob or Stinger works in the literal sense of the rules.... it looks different, is for the same application, does the same thing. Done.

Edit: My bad - Stinger's rotated does away with the EGR... it would NOT work.

User avatar
John Brennan
Level 8
Posts: 11493
Joined: Wed Jun 18, 2003 4:19 pm
Location: Scottsdale, AZ "Summer Is Coming"

Re: Phenolic Intake Manifold Spacer

Post by John Brennan » Fri Feb 22, 2019 3:02 pm

thesameguy wrote:
Fri Feb 22, 2019 1:02 pm
Edit: My bad - Stinger's rotated does away with the EGR... it would NOT work.
It's hard to find one where EGR is preserved. Can't really be that big of a deal do fab a new, longer EGR tube, or an extension on the back of the rotated intake to mate with the original tube, but nobody's doing it.
This is my car, and these are my people!
1989 XR4Ti 5-Speed
2001 BMW Z3 3.0 5-Speed
2015 Fiesta ST 6-Speed
2015 Edge 3.5 V6 Auto/Paddles

thesameguy
Level 7
Level 7
Posts: 1979
Joined: Mon Apr 18, 2005 5:06 pm
Location: Sacramento
Contact:

Re: Phenolic Intake Manifold Spacer

Post by thesameguy » Fri Feb 22, 2019 5:37 pm

The EGR is definitely a rough spot on these cars since it's not THAT effective and prone to issues. I definitely see why people "doing performance stuff" would simply get rid of it rather than investment a few minutes of work. But, it's definitely a roadblock for me. It needs to be there, and ideally on a rotated upper would need to be flipped to the other side! :D

User avatar
andyofcolumbusmerkur
Level 3
Level 3
Posts: 291
Joined: Mon Jul 15, 2013 7:58 pm

Re: Phenolic Intake Manifold Spacer

Post by andyofcolumbusmerkur » Fri Feb 22, 2019 7:39 pm

Just weld it to the side so it looks like it's functioning.
You can barbecue it, boil it, broil it, bake it, saute it. There's shrimp kabobs, shrimp creole, shrimp gumbo, pan fried, deep fried, stir fried, pineapple shrimp, lemon shrimp, coconut shrimp, pepper shrimp, shrimp soup, shrimp stew, shrimp salad, shrimp in potatoes, shrimp burger, shrimp sandwich....

thesameguy
Level 7
Level 7
Posts: 1979
Joined: Mon Apr 18, 2005 5:06 pm
Location: Sacramento
Contact:

Re: Phenolic Intake Manifold Spacer

Post by thesameguy » Fri Feb 22, 2019 9:27 pm

More or less yeah. :)

User avatar
Esteban
Level 7
Level 7
Posts: 1980
Joined: Wed Mar 24, 2010 2:07 am
Location: San Diego

Re: Phenolic Intake Manifold Spacer

Post by Esteban » Fri Feb 22, 2019 9:47 pm

Ive seen an EGR on a 90 deg upper. Used longer tube but it's an eyesore. Also, if you read the old posts there, i think it was MC2 that did some testing and deemed the EGR to be non funcitonal on the XR.

thesameguy
Level 7
Level 7
Posts: 1979
Joined: Mon Apr 18, 2005 5:06 pm
Location: Sacramento
Contact:

Re: Phenolic Intake Manifold Spacer

Post by thesameguy » Fri Feb 22, 2019 10:20 pm

IIRC it was MC2. For whatever it's worth I drive with the EGR blocked off - a thin piece of SS sheet between the valve and flange. I was sick and tired of boost leaks from crap valves. I usually remove the sheet for smog tests, but due to lack of planning I forgot this year... and my smog report was better than it has ever been. :lol:

thesameguy
Level 7
Level 7
Posts: 1979
Joined: Mon Apr 18, 2005 5:06 pm
Location: Sacramento
Contact:

Re: Phenolic Intake Manifold Spacer

Post by thesameguy » Mon Mar 18, 2019 5:42 pm

It's been nearly a month and no further issues from the XR. Seems like the original problem - stuttering and loss of power - was the VAM after all. My best theory is that two hours of high speed cruising (~90) wore a hole in the resistor and wrecked ~3000rpm forever. :D

Troubleshooting the problem resulted in my learning I have excellent compression, (finally) fixing leaky throttle body shaft seals, possibly curing a PCV leak, and catching a pair of future coolant leaks before they became a problem. Not a bad start to 2019. :)

My hope is to get some good motoring in this spring and summer, and then I will probably bite the bullet and work on PIMP. Right now I am tied up on this:

Image

A slight oil leak from the head gasket turned into complete power steering rehab, total exhaust rework, block reseal, head rebuild, and clutch. After that I have to figure out how to change a clutch in a Fiero. Then, maybe, PIMP. :)

User avatar
andyofcolumbusmerkur
Level 3
Level 3
Posts: 291
Joined: Mon Jul 15, 2013 7:58 pm

Re: Phenolic Intake Manifold Spacer

Post by andyofcolumbusmerkur » Mon Mar 18, 2019 5:56 pm

thesameguy wrote:
Mon Mar 18, 2019 5:42 pm
then I will probably bite the bullet and work on PIMP.
I am going to wait for the Merkur Depot speed density setup. Tired of the PE acting all crazy. Hey Mike are these things ready yet or what?
You can barbecue it, boil it, broil it, bake it, saute it. There's shrimp kabobs, shrimp creole, shrimp gumbo, pan fried, deep fried, stir fried, pineapple shrimp, lemon shrimp, coconut shrimp, pepper shrimp, shrimp soup, shrimp stew, shrimp salad, shrimp in potatoes, shrimp burger, shrimp sandwich....

User avatar
merkurdriver
Level 8
Posts: 5883
Joined: Tue Jan 21, 2003 4:29 pm
Location: Northeast Ohio
Contact:

Re: Phenolic Intake Manifold Spacer

Post by merkurdriver » Wed Mar 20, 2019 3:33 am

andyofcolumbusmerkur wrote:
Mon Mar 18, 2019 5:56 pm
thesameguy wrote:
Mon Mar 18, 2019 5:42 pm
then I will probably bite the bullet and work on PIMP.
I am going to wait for the Merkur Depot speed density setup. Tired of the PE acting all crazy. Hey Mike are these things ready yet or what?
Its MAF, not MAP.

PetroleumJunkie412
Newbie
Newbie
Posts: 12
Joined: Sat May 25, 2019 7:47 am

Re: Phenolic Intake Manifold Spacer

Post by PetroleumJunkie412 » Sat May 25, 2019 8:06 am

No intention of hijacking thread:

I have the same username on the Ranger Station forums.

Restoring and building a 1988 Ranger XLT with a 2.9l.

Restoration and build thread:
https://www.therangerstation.com/forums ... se.179111/

This post on these forums inspired me to make my own phenolic spacers:

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1XiAKy7 ... p=drivesdk

They definitely chill off the upper intake

If there's any interest with the Merkur crowd, let me know! I have an extra set on hand, and have the vector files on hand so they can be made by anyone.

Thanks all for the inspiration!

thesameguy
Level 7
Level 7
Posts: 1979
Joined: Mon Apr 18, 2005 5:06 pm
Location: Sacramento
Contact:

Re: Phenolic Intake Manifold Spacer

Post by thesameguy » Tue Jun 04, 2019 12:25 pm

Make those for a 2.3l and I'll bet you'd have some takers!

User avatar
merkurdriver
Level 8
Posts: 5883
Joined: Tue Jan 21, 2003 4:29 pm
Location: Northeast Ohio
Contact:

Re: Phenolic Intake Manifold Spacer

Post by merkurdriver » Thu Jun 06, 2019 11:06 am

thesameguy wrote:
Tue Jun 04, 2019 12:25 pm
Make those for a 2.3l and I'll bet you'd have some takers!
( x 2 ) with and without the water port in the center.

Post Reply