So, maybe turbo time...

XR4Ti / Sierra / Sierra Cosworth Discussions - Questions, problem resolution, general talk, technical tips and modifications.
thesameguy
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Re: So, maybe turbo time...

Post by thesameguy » Fri Apr 20, 2018 1:27 pm

I am about 90% done with this project.

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What I've got:

1. Turbonetics hybrid turbo, which I believe is a T3/T04B. It has a ball bearing center section, but I have no idea what the turbine or compressor specs are. I did call Turbonetics, but they couldn't tell me. Ultimately it doesn't matter - it's bigger than stock and probably smaller than what was there (which was a T3/T04E) and it's not damaged - and I like all three of those things. :)

2. I replaced the oil feed and oil pressure sensor. Out of head is a 1/4 NPT to AN -4 adapter, then the AN -4 sensor takeoff I posted earlier with a VDO sensor installed. Braided AN -4 hose travels across the head, parallel to the plug wires to the turbo. I used an ATP oil feed flange adapter (this turbo did not have a threaded oil inlet) with an ATP oil pressure restrictor to prevent windage in the center section. There was nothing obviously wrong with my factory oil feed, but since I had turbo troubles I had to suspect it, I needed a clean way to get that pressure restrictor installed, and I wanted to move the oil feed away from the exhaust manifold so I can built a heat shield... that's the 10% left to do. :)

3. The factory turbo oil drain was retained - it's in perfect shape. I did remove the fitting from the block and cleaned everything - but there was nothing really to clean. :shrug:

4. I replaced the water feed to the turbo entirely - did it for a couple reasons. Primarily, I wanted to get rid of the silly "tube between two couplers" - it's just a lot of parts and four hose clamps per side. Secondarily, I needed to move the water feed away from the exhaust manifold for my heat shield. I used AN -8 Russell Twist-Lok hose here - the water pipe on the side of the head is 1/2" and AN -8 is half inch, so, well, duh. The Twist Lok is clamped to the pipe using an Oetiker clamp - it's not going anywhere without a Dremel. At the turbo, the Twist Lok is terminated with a 45 degree AN -8 fitting attached to a 16mm banjo -> AN -8 adapter bolted to the turbo. This creates a *little* space between the water feed and the exhaust manifold flange, but honestly less than I'd hoped. Still, it improves access to that top flange nut, and I'm stoked about that.

5. The water drain from the turbo uses an 16mm -> AN -8 adapter, a short hose made from the same Russell Twist Lok as the feed, and a 1/4" -> AN -8 adapter in the block.

So I've got a new turbo, new hardware, I turned eight hose clamps into one, got a sensor to drive an oil pressure gauge, and I cleared room for an exhaust manifold heat shield. I'd rather the turbo hadn't failed, but OTOH I feel like a lot of improvements were made. Hopefully I can get back to driving it this weekend.

thesameguy
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Re: So, maybe turbo time...

Post by thesameguy » Mon Apr 23, 2018 10:10 am

Got this project wrapped up... I hope. :)

Last 10% was making a heat shield for the exhaust manifold. Years ago I realized that the manifold was baking the pipe to the throttle body, so I built a crap shield that I strapped to the pipe. It helped dramatically - top pipe went from "too hot to touch" to "warm" but I was never satisfied with the result. It was ugly and just redirected a lot of heat. So, here's v.2:

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It's made of DCI "Sheethot" which is out of Australia, I think. It's the XT1000 version, which offers some good performance characteristics and safety to 1000C, which I hope I don't get to. ;)

http://www.dciperformance.com.au/uploads/view/id:19

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Hopefully it will also keep heat off the cold side of the turbo, including the air filter pipe.

I changed the oil, refilled the cooling system and everything looks good. Hopefully I can put some road time on it soon and see how it does... I'm not looking forward to resetting the waste gate actuator, but anything for boost, right?

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Re: So, maybe turbo time...

Post by MarkM » Mon Apr 23, 2018 11:29 pm

That's a really sharp looking heat shield. I hope it works well for you.

Thanks for sharing the info about it.
Mark

thesameguy
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Re: So, maybe turbo time...

Post by thesameguy » Tue Apr 24, 2018 1:34 pm

I hope it works too! Keeping heat in the exhaust is good for turbo spool and keeping heat off the intake plumbing is good for air density, so it's potentially a double-win. :) I much prefer a heat shield to any sort of wrap which can get wet or create hot spots and cause problems, or wear out and need replacement. The XT1000 has good thermal characteristics and should really help keep the heat where I want it and last forever while posing little risk to the manifold. The manifold is ceramic coated in & out - hopefully with stable and even temps and ceramic it'll have a long, happy life.

I may yet extend the shield to the hot side of the turbo, but I thought I'd start small and see how it goes. Plus, I do want to try and sneak a 3" down pipe through smog and didn't want to have to reinvent the wheel. That XT1000 is very expensive - the 1'x2' sheet I used was $80! Waste not, want not! :)

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Re: So, maybe turbo time...

Post by grampy666 » Tue Apr 24, 2018 2:14 pm

thesameguy wrote:
Tue Apr 24, 2018 1:34 pm
I hope it works too! Keeping heat in the exhaust is good for turbo spool and keeping heat off the intake plumbing is good for air density, so it's potentially a double-win. :) I much prefer a heat shield to any sort of wrap which can get wet or create hot spots and cause problems, or wear out and need replacement. The XT1000 has good thermal characteristics and should really help keep the heat where I want it and last forever while posing little risk to the manifold. The manifold is ceramic coated in & out - hopefully with stable and even temps and ceramic it'll have a long, happy life.

I may yet extend the shield to the hot side of the turbo, but I thought I'd start small and see how it goes. Plus, I do want to try and sneak a 3" down pipe through smog and didn't want to have to reinvent the wheel. That XT1000 is very expensive - the 1'x2' sheet I used was $80! Waste not, want not! :)
I've been following your thread with interest and like what you did with the XT1000 on the exhaust manifold. A fellow who posts on TF (evintho) has a very cool hot side turbo heat shield made from a stainless steel utensil holder that can be had at Wal-Mart or through E-Bay for $10 or $20. When I get to working on that area of my XR4TI, I will likely incorporate both ideas; not only for the functionality, but for the good looks under the hood!
-Michael-

1985 XR4TI - one owner - off the road since 1999, finally starting to work on it!

thesameguy
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Re: So, maybe turbo time...

Post by thesameguy » Tue Apr 24, 2018 2:36 pm

I've seen some of the DIY heat shields and while they are functional, I really doubt they do as good as job as engineered materials. If they did, what would the point be? Well, that's what I'm telling myself anyway. :D

FWIW, I found that XT1000 stuff while looking for a replacement manifold shield for my Fiero - the original one was just '80s sheet metal and time had taken its toll. I was trying to find whatever sandwich material is used on modern Fords, but couldn't. The XT1000 had some good specs, seemed easy to form, and was available. :)

On the Fiero, I replaced the factory one heat shield between firewall and engine and added a second between engine and rear trunk.

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The difference in performance between the factory metal heat shield and a modern engineered material is stunning. Even though it's expensive, the improvement in function between it and sheet metal seems worth it. Both the firewall and the trunk on the Fiero are demonstrably cooler. Plus, the XT1000 won't rust, and it is indeed very easy to work with - hand tools and a $30 Harbor Freight brake is all I used.

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Re: So, maybe turbo time...

Post by whitelx » Fri Apr 27, 2018 6:05 pm

When I worked for Banks we would supply that same style heat shielding with the exhaust systems. I never realized it was so expensive. I should have kept some of the extra stuff they tossed out. I got tons of take off diesel intercooler pipes, couplers, T-bolt clamps, and intercoolers while I was there.
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1986 XR4Ti - 294rwhp/315ft-lbs
1992 Mustang 5.0 notch - 434rwhp/445ft-lbs
http://www.youtube.com/user/whitelx

thesameguy
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Re: So, maybe turbo time...

Post by thesameguy » Sun Apr 29, 2018 4:07 pm

The better job it does the more expensive it is. The XT1000 is the most expensive single-ply stuff they DCI has - more effective sandwich stuff gets really expensive really quickly. That stuff is more difficult to use, so I stayed with the single ply... it's been doing great on the Fiero so I have high hopes for the XR.

Edit: Just for clarity I am sure there are other sources of this stuff than DCI, but I couldn't find them in the sizes that were useful at prices I could afford from vendors I trust. I was actually surprised that in 2017 there weren't more sources for heat shield material. I've had great luck with Verocious Motorsports and they stocked the DCI stuff, so that's why I ended up with it.

Last night was the first drive - I kept it to very light throttle, no boost. I was mostly just trying to be sure none of my new plumbing was leaking. Everything looked good getting back to the house, so I guess it's onto real driving. My immediate reaction is that the replacement turbo is a dramatic improvement - I can hear it spooling 500-800rpm lower than the turbo that was in there - by 2600 or 2700rpm it's ready to start making positive pressure, so there was a lot of short shifting. Feels a lot more like stock which is what I wanted - that plus more on top. :)

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Re: So, maybe turbo time...

Post by thesameguy » Fri Jun 08, 2018 2:55 pm

Well, one thing I didn't think to check was the oil pressure switch, which it turned out wasn't working. No warning light with the key on. I am guessing that the black anodizing on the AN fittings was preventing the body of the sensor from grounding. I'm not proud of my solution, but it's functional. I stripped about 2" of wire bare, wrapped it around the exposed threads on the sensor, and then grounding it to a ground point on the firewall. My shame is reasonably well hidden, but I know it's there.

At some point maybe I will remove the sensor and try and solder (?) a wire to the body... in the interim, at least I have a 7psi warning light. :)

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Re: So, maybe turbo time...

Post by my8950 » Wed Jun 20, 2018 8:45 pm

This makes me wonder about my turbo. I am seeing oil on the turbo itself, but the outlet is dry going into the throttle body.
I smell oil randomly when stopping, but rarely see any oil or smoke from the tailpipe, not that I can sit and watch it at all times.
Debating to get another turbo and install it, this car is no hot rod though, just stock grocery getter daily driver.

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Re: So, maybe turbo time...

Post by hEaT » Fri Jun 22, 2018 12:13 pm

my8950 wrote:
Wed Jun 20, 2018 8:45 pm
This makes me wonder about my turbo. I am seeing oil on the turbo itself, but the outlet is dry going into the throttle body.
I smell oil randomly when stopping, but rarely see any oil or smoke from the tailpipe, not that I can sit and watch it at all times.
Debating to get another turbo and install it, this car is no hot rod though, just stock grocery getter daily driver.
If you see oil on the turbo, check the feed line to make sure it's not leaking. This can be a fire hazard.
Joe
1985 Nimbus Grey XR
2017 Ford Focus RS

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