XR4Ti Coolant Recovery Bottle always full

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hEaT
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Re: XR4Ti Coolant Recovery Bottle always full

Post by hEaT » Wed Jun 06, 2018 11:37 am

I'm not sure when the change was, but bet mine was replaced later in life by Ford. My car is a 12/84 build so I know that style wasn't original to that year.

You are welcome to check my car over or I can snap pictures for you of my coolant routing. I still maintain flow through the lower intake and heater core, but have removed over half of the original coolant lines (mainly HCV and oil cooler).

While my bottle is in a different spot, it should be easy enough to have anywhere on the passenger side.
Joe
1985 Nimbus Grey XR
2017 Ford Focus RS

cmouta
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Re: XR4Ti Coolant Recovery Bottle always full

Post by cmouta » Wed Jun 06, 2018 12:14 pm

hEaT wrote:
Wed Jun 06, 2018 11:37 am
I'm not sure when the change was, but bet mine was replaced later in life by Ford. My car is a 12/84 build so I know that style wasn't original to that year.

You are welcome to check my car over or I can snap pictures for you of my coolant routing. I still maintain flow through the lower intake and heater core, but have removed over half of the original coolant lines (mainly HCV and oil cooler).

While my bottle is in a different spot, it should be easy enough to have anywhere on the passenger side.
Thanks! I just realized a few weeks ago what I thought was an oil pan leak was really my oil cooler soaking everything in the vicinity in oil. Got some fresh gaskets from Blugg so I'll be inspecting those coolant lines when I go to do that job. I spent alot of money over the winter overhauling the ignition system, fuel system and rear end so I need to space this out a bit more.
Chris
2013 Nero Fiat 500C Abarth
1988 Mono Rosso Red Merkur XR4Ti
1974 VW Thing
2006 Bajaj Chetak 4T w/ sidecar

Ed Lijewski
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Re: XR4Ti Coolant Recovery Bottle always full

Post by Ed Lijewski » Wed Jun 06, 2018 12:54 pm

No retroactive replacement; no need for that. The early system works perfectly for 99.9% of useage.

The early style was on all from 85 through 88. Later bottle and cap and location on 89s only.

YMMV
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Re: XR4Ti Coolant Recovery Bottle always full

Post by Ed Lijewski » Wed Jun 06, 2018 1:04 pm

Screenshot_2018-06-06-12-57-44-432x768.png
Screenshot_2018-06-06-12-57-44-432x768.png (94.02 KiB) Viewed 585 times
This same source/site claims that "rubber" hoses can only sustain working temps up to 212* without possibly deforming. I call BS on that.

YMMV
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cmouta
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Re: XR4Ti Coolant Recovery Bottle always full

Post by cmouta » Wed Jun 06, 2018 1:33 pm

Ed Lijewski wrote:
Wed Jun 06, 2018 12:54 pm
No retroactive replacement; no need for that. The early system works perfectly for 99.9% of useage.

The early style was on all from 85 through 88. Later bottle and cap and location on 89s only.

YMMV
But you can clearly see in joe's photo that he has a passenger side bottle with a screw on cap and no provision for a capture bottle. Here's a photo I found of another 85 with a screw top.
Image
Clearly a different expansion tank from what I have with the recovery bottle so I count 3 different types of expansion tanks offered on XR's. I'm guessing it was early 85-> screw top, late 85-88-> twist lock with recovery bottle, 89-> driver side screw top, which seems like a weird progression to me.
Chris
2013 Nero Fiat 500C Abarth
1988 Mono Rosso Red Merkur XR4Ti
1974 VW Thing
2006 Bajaj Chetak 4T w/ sidecar

thesameguy
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Re: XR4Ti Coolant Recovery Bottle always full

Post by thesameguy » Wed Jun 06, 2018 1:44 pm

That is very misleading information. Modern curing (usually, "platinum curing") and treatments mean silicone today can go places it couldn't before... and before is like >10 years ago. Buy the correct product and you'll be fine... Excluding the upper and lower radiator hoses most of my cooling system is "silicone coolant hose" which has been treated to work in that environment... and it works great. The PCV system is made of fluorosilicone which has a chemical-resistant liner - you wouldn't carry liquid fuel or oil with it, but it's perfect for PCV.

At the same time, any reputable hose these days isn't gonna be rubber. It'll be neoprene or EPDM or some other fancy material. Generic parts store stuff probably isn't going to be very good, but Gates, Dayco, etc. all label and sell their hoses so you know what you're buying. My upper radiator hose and lower radiator hose are Gates EPDM - and that's not remotely their stoutest stuff but it's plenty for a car.

In my very limited experience - three XR4Tis I've worked on - ALL the hoses were ancient and original, or piecemeal replaced with random bits from the lowest bidder. The big enemy of the XR4Ti (in my opinion) is all the external plumbing and the mix of rubber and metal. It's a lot of joints, a lot of little hoses, and a lot of places to leak... especially when POs don't maintain their cars properly and there is a buildup of corrosion or a loss of metal due to rust. So. Many. Leaks. I will also mention that the use of crap hose clamps isn't helping anyone, especially in combination with fancy materials. They mangle hoses, don't hold tension, and create more leaks.

1. Use the right rubber (or synthetic) hose
2. Use good clamps (Swedish ABA clamps are phenomenal, Amazon sells "Precision" brand clamps which seem nice - smooth bands and rolled edges)
3. Make sure the metal parts are clean and intact before employing
4. Change your coolant with proper 50/50 every 2-5 years (depending on coolant & use) and use only distilled water
5. Make sure the system is free of leaks and free of air

I fought the cooling system for years on my car until a nice person explained to me all the mistakes I'd made. I took his advice and hey, it works as advertised.

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Re: XR4Ti Coolant Recovery Bottle always full

Post by thesameguy » Wed Jun 06, 2018 1:45 pm

cmouta wrote:
Wed Jun 06, 2018 1:33 pm
But you can clearly see in joe's photo that he has a passenger side bottle with a screw on cap and no provision for a capture bottle. Here's a photo I found of another 85 with a screw top.
I believe this is the European bottle that OPMD imported and sold. I had one as well. It's not factory. Unless you have a >88 European model. :)

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Re: XR4Ti Coolant Recovery Bottle always full

Post by cmouta » Wed Jun 06, 2018 1:53 pm

thesameguy wrote:
Wed Jun 06, 2018 1:45 pm
cmouta wrote:
Wed Jun 06, 2018 1:33 pm
But you can clearly see in joe's photo that he has a passenger side bottle with a screw on cap and no provision for a capture bottle. Here's a photo I found of another 85 with a screw top.
I believe this is the European bottle that OPMD imported and sold. I had one as well. It's not factory. Unless you have a >88 European model. :)
Ah, that explains it, very sneaky!
Chris
2013 Nero Fiat 500C Abarth
1988 Mono Rosso Red Merkur XR4Ti
1974 VW Thing
2006 Bajaj Chetak 4T w/ sidecar

Ed Lijewski
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Re: XR4Ti Coolant Recovery Bottle always full

Post by Ed Lijewski » Wed Jun 06, 2018 2:08 pm

cmouta wrote:
Wed Jun 06, 2018 1:33 pm
Ed Lijewski wrote:
Wed Jun 06, 2018 12:54 pm
No retroactive replacement; no need for that. The early system works perfectly for 99.9% of useage.

The early style was on all from 85 through 88. Later bottle and cap and location on 89s only.


YMMV
But you can clearly see in joe's photo that he has a passenger side bottle with a screw on cap and no provision for a capture bottle. Here's a photo I found of another 85 with a screw top.
Image
Clearly a different expansion tank from what I have with the recovery bottle so I count 3 different types of expansion tanks offered on XR's. I'm guessing it was early 85-> screw top, late 85-88-> twist lock with recovery bottle, 89-> driver side screw top, which seems like a weird progression to me.
No mystery there and no retro fitting by Ford either. The 88/89 Scorpio reservoir is screw-on and the bottle is the same configuration as early XRs and mounts with the same two screw holes as well. The one in Joe's may be from Europe as Sameguy notes but its only difference from the Scorpio bottle is the orientation of the bottom return tube: on the Scorpio it points directly downward (easy enough to adapt for XR firment).

YMMV
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John Brennan
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Re: XR4Ti Coolant Recovery Bottle always full

Post by John Brennan » Wed Jun 06, 2018 4:12 pm

I was gonna say earlier that at some point, Ford ceased production/supply of the old, quarter-twist cap bottle design (levered or otherwise), and began supplying the screw-on cap bottle as a running change. I got one from Rapido (I'm gonna guess) in the early-mid '90's and they had already switched over. That was for my original '88, which I had for seven years, or until '95.

I've also never had any noticeable or significant coolant loss from the "weep-through" issue described in your attached reference on silicone hoses. In fact, no leaks, no bursts, or failures of any kind with any silicone hose I've installed.
This is my car, and these are my people!
1989 XR4Ti 5-Speed
2001 BMW Z3 3.0 5-Speed
2015 Fiesta ST 6-Speed
2015 Edge 3.5 V6 Auto/Paddles

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Re: XR4Ti Coolant Recovery Bottle always full

Post by Ed Lijewski » Wed Jun 06, 2018 4:29 pm

Below is the link I screenshotted from; it was at or near the top of Google search results for "rubber vs silicone coolant hose differences." I only wanted to see what data would be cited pro and con.

https://www.siliconehose.com/blog/silic ... bber-hose/

YMMV
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Lijewski: "Sum Ergo Drive-O. Mucho!

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Re: XR4Ti Coolant Recovery Bottle always full

Post by John Brennan » Wed Jun 06, 2018 4:45 pm

Gotcha-- and thanks. Sounds like a bit of Lawyerese, the old CYA disclaimer... I can't think of any other reason for a supplier to cast aspersions on its own products. "For racing," and all that. :wink: :wink:
This is my car, and these are my people!
1989 XR4Ti 5-Speed
2001 BMW Z3 3.0 5-Speed
2015 Fiesta ST 6-Speed
2015 Edge 3.5 V6 Auto/Paddles

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Re: XR4Ti Coolant Recovery Bottle always full

Post by thesameguy » Wed Jun 06, 2018 5:35 pm

I think that article is generic and may be pilfered from somewhere else. There is a difference between various "silicone hoses" and you can typically tell whether a hose has a liner or a treatment - some sort of barrier. General use silicone hose - often sold as "vacuum hose" - will weep moisture in general. Actual coolant-specified hose will not. If you look on their own site they have broken out "vacuum hose" from "coolant hose" and I'll bet if you bought both the difference would be obvious. The stuff I used is lined inside and outside and it's proven pretty indestructible.

hEaT
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Re: XR4Ti Coolant Recovery Bottle always full

Post by hEaT » Thu Jun 07, 2018 8:29 am

Agreed on the silicone hose comments. The only two rubber hoses I have on the car are the upper and lower radiator hoses. The rest are silicone and they've been fantastic.
Joe
1985 Nimbus Grey XR
2017 Ford Focus RS

cmouta
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Re: XR4Ti Coolant Recovery Bottle always full

Post by cmouta » Thu Jun 07, 2018 9:07 am

And now merkurdepot has a few reproduction hoses available in silicone, including the elusive lower hose!
Chris
2013 Nero Fiat 500C Abarth
1988 Mono Rosso Red Merkur XR4Ti
1974 VW Thing
2006 Bajaj Chetak 4T w/ sidecar

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