Fading Paint?

[reddy2300]

I've said this quite a few times before...You should NOT use any set of abrasive polish on a regular basis. Twice a year?! how thick do you think that paint IS, anyway? All that 'color' you saw on the buffing pad, now...not on you car.

If you have oxidized, cloudy/hazy single stage paint, start with Meguire's #7 Show Car Glaze. You can slather that stuff on and leave it overnight. (Seriously. I didn't believe that either when the Meguire's rep told me to do it.) It provides life to the existing paint. After it's applied (even if it's the next day) you can buff it off, either by hand or with and orbital 'polisher' with a microfiber bonnet. You will sh*t proverbial bricks when you see how much shine that one step provided. Once that's done, apply a coat or two of a GOOD carnauba wax. Hint: GOOD carnauba wax isn't usually sold at Autozone or Advance. I like JaxWax but I've heard good things about Chemical Brothers.

I did this with my Rosso Red 87 XR a few years ago and with only regular WAXING, it still looks amazing. It had been neglected in a storage unit for over 10 years before I got it. And not a BIT of that RR came off onto a buffing pad.

The rule for maintaining paint is: Always use the LEAST invasive means necessary to restore the shine. Leave the polishes on the store shelves. A good overall paint job starts around $5k and goes up from there. Think about that.

[john keefe]

Fortunately, I didn't use anything really harsh, (Ultimate Compound, lightly by hand), or the light polish/paint-cleaner (Maguire's) on that area that's fading. As above, it's disconcerting because I repainted in that area, several single-stage coats only a few years ago, so shouldn't have been any fading at all. I do have the show car glaze, but only used it for finishing touch. I'll give that a shot and see what happens overnight, when this rain stops.

[Ed Lijewski]

Rob's pointing his wagging finger at my post.

He doesn't know that I acquired my RR with crusty paint from sitting unused outside exposed to everything which I slooooowy brought back to nice-but-far-from-new initially with gentle hand Mequiar's clean/polish/wax massaging. Because it's a DD the twice a year routine was indicated to clean surfaces of what falls from the air and is kicked up from roadways, sun damage (when not under car cover or under shade, which I always seek out), etc.

That single stage paint has simply aged, slowly. Garage Queen RR paint will need less attention, if any other than rewaxing. Totally different universes.

YMMV

[reddy2300]

I may have been wagging my finger at you, Ed. Or...maybe I wasn't Instead of the polish, a clay bar to pull that garbage out of the paint would have been a better choice. Hindsight...

That fact of the matter is, ANY sort of polish regimen is going to naturally wear through the paint. It is an abrasive after all. "Death by a thousand cuts" or wearing to sheetmetal by a thousand polish jobs.

I remember, in the 80's, seeing 50's era cars with original paint worn through at the crease just above the door opening across the roof of the car, front to rear. Apparently, that's the easiest place to polish and it certainly showed. Lol. Those cars came with a LOT of paint on them.

[Ed Lijewski]

Do any cars today come with single stage paint (the base issue with some XRs)?

YMMV

[john keefe]

Per the shop that gave me the quote, they hardly do single stage these days unless its an older car and they're not doing a complete makeover. Almost everything is two-stage, in large part per CA to minimize VOC''s... supposedly, there's more VOC's emitted with single stage, than the water-based base coat and regular clear coat.

I asked if they get my car down to metal/primer, if they'd do single stage like the factory 80's. They said the two-stage would be less expensive, yet look better, and last longer. Though, they admitted that you need to put on many layers of the clear to hold up to occasional paint-cleaner, clay bars, light polishing compounds, etc. If true, makes me wonder whether the new low-VOC clear coats are even that durable, or if today's (CA) single stages these days are that bad in comparison.

IDK, at least in the past, there's something reassuring that with some elbow grease you can revive a good, thick single stage paint job a few times, but if the clear starts to go, you're basically down to repairing/replacing the base coat as well. I.e., tough to feather-sand the good clear coat back enough to avoid visible blend-ridges, while still managing to not hit good base coat underneath.

[john keefe]

OK... tried the MaGuire's Showecar Glaze overnight, and it didn't work. I had covered slightly more area than was faded, and now even that extended area is faded. It's now pretty obvious, especially since its the only area on the car.

But, I noticed at the top edge/corner of the quarter panel at the gap to the hatch, that the fading stops at an edge that looks exactly like clear coat fade, with a ridge. Except the "base" is actually shiny, gloss black, and looks like new single stage. I'm 99% sure that this car never had an accident, let alone repairs to that rear quarter, panel, and no reason obvious reason to have sprayed over it in clear.

Ever heard/seen this with non-metallic XR's?

So, could this be some factory clear/protection over the single-stage black? I doubt the previous owner (only 1) had something sprayed on aftermarket to protect the black, and its not evident anywhere else on the car... so far. The only clear coat XR I've ever painted/seen was a Cinnamon (Regency Red Metallic), and that was pretty evident it was a factory 2-stage.

The "undercoat" gloss black looks pretty good, and part of me is tempted to try to polish through the "clear" to get to the gloss, but that's a whole can of worms. Number one body-paint rule is that if you don't know what's underneath, then don't screw with it unless you plan on redoing the entire panel/car.

Any ideas?

[reddy2300]

I'll bet it's been fixed. Maybe there was a paint flaw when it arrived at the dealership and they "fixed" it with base/clear.

[john keefe]

I knew the previous, original owner, so a dealer-delivery fix sounds like the most plausible explanation. Must have been a really good job because in all the years I've had it, I never noticed any flaw in the sunlight there before.

So, the question is, how to fix it now? Not really up for hours and hours of sanding with 850 & 1000 grit to take the clear off w/o damaging the factory black, and then color-sanding that black. But, that might be what it takes.

[reddy2300]

I think that the chance that you can wet sand ONLY the clear coat off is not as good as winning the Powerball three times in a row.

Do you have pics of the flaw/damage? It sounds like it IS the base coat that you're trying to polish. It is never going to hold a shine. If you're good with paint repair, you COULD get a can of DupliColor aerosol clear and wet sand the thing the best you can and re-clear the whole panel. It's probably enamel base/clear that was used if it was repaired. DupliColor is lacquer. I will work but surface prep is everything.

Here's the way I look at stuff like this, "Heal" it the best you can. (Keep it from getting worse. Make it look as good as possible. Don't spend a lot of time on it.) It IS an old car, now. They didn't all make it through in perfect shape. It's likely far better than 99% of them out there.

I'll bet you can't see the flaw from the driver's seat. Enjoy it from there.

[john keefe]

I'll bet you can't see the flaw from the driver's seat. Enjoy it from there.

Ha! True Dat. As long as I look at just the dash/IP, and not around the rest of the interior. Car's not exactly what you'd call a sleeper, but then I don't want it to look like some half-assed bondo project either.

Its definitely a layer on top of gloss. Just not into the hours of careful color-sanding it would take to get it down to the original. Or, maybe there's some "mild" stripper out there which could work on the clear, and then I could stop it before it eats into the gloss?

OTOH, the original factory gloss is probably rock-hard, and thick enough to take some color-sanding to blend any sand-throughs. But, I don't want to be chasing this thing if it ends up being the whole rear quarter panel which was sprayed. Too damn much work when there's other things I want to finish.

I've recently repainted other sections and one front fender with Duplicolor, so this fading kinda' sticks out. Results were surprisingly good, but it took several coats, and it's relatively soft paint. Luckily I had almost no paint runs, so I was able to color-sand starting with 800. Figure I'll get a couple years of good looks before it starts fading out too, as seems to be the general opinion.

I was tempted to finish with a coat of clear, as Duplicolor recommends. But, that would be another layer to sand down if/when I repaint the whole car. I expect their clear coat is relatively soft too, and not sure what other brands/types would be compatible. If that shop does the whole prep/repaint, then they'd be going to metal/primer anyway, but odds are it'll be me doing most of the prep.

[reddy2300]

That Duplicolor starts out soft, as lacquer paint does. After a couple of weeks though, it should be as hard as modern "hardened" paints. It does go on thin and takes quite a few coats to build any real thickness.

I can't imagine any paint stripper "lite" out there. It's either you want the paint off or you don't with those products. I certainly wouldn't take the chance.

Sounds like you know how Duplicolor works. I would sand it back and recoat it using the process you already know.