Anything wrong with running breathers?...(PCV question)PICS*

Black94 5.0 · Post by **Black94 5.0** » Mon Oct 10, 2005 12:46 am

mangostick wrote:This is the setup Im runnin right now...
http://www.cardomain.com/member_pages/s ... 0_full.jpg

http://www.cardomain.com/member_pages/s ... 2_full.jpg

Thanks for the advise mangostick...I Actually decided to copy your design in the end

...After experimenting with different parts on my PCV system I figured out it was probably best to just run a breather tank and eliminate any oil even getting in my intake...I'm getting some massive blowby..(200k+ engine)

I have one question though...I'm running a tank like your set up, but I'm wondering if you're still running a PCV valve just a precaution, so that nothing can enter the crankcase and just escape...I'm running a PCV in the original location and one on top of the valve cover where the breather once was...Do you think I should?...The PCV valves are restrictive even when they're open and I'm also only running 3/8" hose, your hose looks to be 3/4"....

Thanks for your time....I just finished mounting my catch can and I'll take some pics so that you guys can learn from my mistakes or improvements(I've yet to drive the car)....

Rob

Post by **DPDISXR4Ti** » Mon Oct 10, 2005 9:08 am

Black94 5.0 wrote:I'm running a PCV in the original location and one on top of the valve cover where the breather once was...Do you think I should?...

Get the PCV on the valve cover breather out of there. That location needs to "inhale" and "exhale", and you're preventing that by utilizing any sort of check-valve there.

MerkXRTurbo · Post by **MerkXRTurbo** » Mon Oct 10, 2005 10:02 am

What if we just stuck one of those little K&N filters in there? Can it just be open to the atmosphere like that, or does it need the inhaling from the intake tract?

What do we need to do to eliminate blow by?

Post by **DPDISXR4Ti** » Mon Oct 10, 2005 10:37 am

MerkXRTurbo wrote:What if we just stuck one of those little K&N filters in there? Can it just be open to the atmosphere like that, or does it need the inhaling from the intake tract?

What do we need to do to eliminate blow by?

It really should be a closed system, as the factory intended. I replicate the stock plumbing design, but with a big, honking can, mounted out front and stuffed with steel wool, to better allow the oil to condense and fall out. It has a drain on the bottom.

If you have blow-by, you should fix the problem. Easier said than done, I realize. My setup will allow over a pint of oil to accumulate before sucking it back into the intake, so it should work for a pretty tired engine.

Black94 5.0 · Post by **Black94 5.0** » Mon Oct 10, 2005 7:52 pm

Well, right now for some strange reason the car smokes like crazy outta the exhaust pipe...It never did that before, so I did something wrong...I'm gonna remove the PCV on top of the valve cover and see what happens...I'm kinda mind boggled when my car started to smoke, becuase in my theory I should not have any oil in the intake whatsoever, but it apears to be burning oil from somewhere....

I'll keep you guys posted (I'm still at work)

mangostick · Post by **mangostick** » Tue Oct 11, 2005 2:19 am

Black94 5.0 wrote:Well, right now for some strange reason the car smokes like crazy outta the exhaust pipe...It never did that before, so I did something wrong...I'm gonna remove the PCV on top of the valve cover and see what happens...I'm kinda mind boggled when my car started to smoke, becuase in my theory I should not have any oil in the intake whatsoever, but it apears to be burning oil from somewhere....

I'll keep you guys posted (I'm still at work)

Mine did that after I switched out to the catch can and was worse when I removed the cat...Im thinking my sloppy valve guides are made more apperent now that there isnt a vacuume on the system. I would like to figure out a way to close the system... but as of yet I havent come up with anything that would work the way I want it to.

vcallaway · Post by **vcallaway** » Tue Oct 11, 2005 11:20 am

You've created a vacuum in your crankcase. You are litterly sucking the oil out.

Black94 5.0 · Post by **Black94 5.0** » Tue Oct 11, 2005 11:48 pm

Here are some pics of my oil catch can(sorry poor quality)...

I've decided to "gut" my PCV valves so they're just basically 3/8" 90 degree pipes...I figure if I'm not hooked up to my intake there is absolutely no point in running PCV valves...It seems to have cured all problems and I'm acutally not accumulating that much oil...I think most of the oil was caused by blow-by having no where to go rather than the oil seperators not doing their job....I'd like to keep a working PCV system, but what's the point if my car keeps pissing oil everywhere...The knock sensor feels like it's comming on at a higher rpm, so if I've made my car better in anyway I'll be happy...

Thanks for the ideas and help guys!!!!!....

Here's a gutted Fram PCV which is about all they're good for..

Here's some pics of my Jaz Products tank that I bought from Jeg's..

Black94 5.0 · Post by **Black94 5.0** » Wed Oct 12, 2005 12:28 am

BTW here is a link to the tank I bought if anyone was interested..It's the "1 Pint mini breather" tank....

http://www.jazproducts.com/index2.htm

DGrue · Post by **DGrue** » Wed Oct 12, 2005 10:48 pm

A while back I saw a surprisingly-intact junkyard XR with an interesting oil separator setup: the oil separator on top of the valve cover had been removed, along with the vacuum line that connects it to the turbo inlet, and the hole on top of the valve cover had been sealed with a bolt and some epoxy! The PCV valve/vaccuum lines were intact.

What would have been the effects of this setup? Would the crankcase pressurize and cause damage?

I apologize for moving this thread away from the original topic, but an explanation here would really help me understand more about these ventilation systems.

Thanks,
Dustin

vcallaway · Post by **vcallaway** » Thu Oct 13, 2005 12:05 am

The effect is like trying to run with your hand over your mouth.

The PCV valve on the block draws vapors out of the block using vacuum. If it cannot draw air through the valve cover breather then it has to get it from somewhere.

if your car has blowby you really have an issue. You now have a real problem. When under boost the valve is closed and your are presurising the block with oil vapors. The effect would be to increase the amount of blowby.

I found a really nice catch can on ebay. Here is the link:
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayI ... 7927536834

Stick this inline between your oil seperator cap and the turbo inlet. No fumes, smoke or drips. Should also be smog legal for those of you in the peoples republic of california.

There is a good reason you found it in a junkyard. The owner was not the sharpest tool in the shed.

Black94 5.0 · Post by **Black94 5.0** » Thu Oct 13, 2005 6:50 pm

vcallaway~I've been down that road and even with the another oil separator on the breather line that still doesn't 100% get rid of the oil vapor comming into the PCV line when it opens....

DGrue~Yeah, if you have an "out" you must have an "in"...

All I'm really doing is a "band aid" fix for bad piston rings....

mangostick · Post by **mangostick** » Thu Oct 13, 2005 11:06 pm

vcallaway wrote:You've created a vacuum in your crankcase. You are litterly sucking the oil out.

if your stock system is intact...open the oil fill when at an Idle and put your hand over it...you tell me if there isnt any negative pressure there... after that you can tell me again if you suck the oil out of your crankcase

As long as there is a way to creat flow through the crankcase all that is removed is the oil vapor that is atomized inside the block..not the liquid oil that is running through the galleys and bearings and whatnot. I have a constant but slight pressure on my system now at an Idle. That's really the only drawback to running a catch can that I've seen so far. One other funny thing I've noticed..it smells a little differnt under the hood now..hehe..kinda like the old v8 cars with the breather on the vc...

mangostick · Post by **mangostick** » Thu Oct 13, 2005 11:11 pm

Black94 5.0 wrote:Here are some pics of my oil catch can(sorry poor quality)...

I've decided to "gut" my PCV valves so they're just basically 3/8" 90 degree pipes...I figure if I'm not hooked up to my intake there is absolutely no point in running PCV valves...It seems to have cured all problems and I'm acutally not accumulating that much oil...I think most of the oil was caused by blow-by having no where to go rather than the oil seperators not doing their job....I'd like to keep a working PCV system, but what's the point if my car keeps pissing oil everywhere...The knock sensor feels like it's comming on at a higher rpm, so if I've made my car better in anyway I'll be happy...

Thanks for the ideas and help guys!!!!!....

Look great man! I would have gotten the smaller can but I found a great deal on the one I got...plus I wanted to use a larger volume can and larger hoses to keep restriction to a minimum. It breathes REALLY well, but I still want to find a way to make it a closed system simliar to the factory intent..but with much better results. Keep us posted on how yours works!