Honestly, is there the design for the svo DOHC somewhere?

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85merwhat?
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Honestly, is there the design for the svo DOHC somewhere?

Post by 85merwhat? » Thu Oct 27, 2005 11:38 pm

I am so curios to see this motor, and drive it, that I cant take it anymore. There has to be some design plans out there somewhere, or even the guy that designed it. I would love to see an aftermarket head based off of that. I would throw some money to get it developed. How far has anybody researched this head?

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Post by fastmaul » Fri Oct 28, 2005 12:01 am

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Re: Honestly, is there the design for the svo DOHC somewhere

Post by Turbopit » Fri Oct 28, 2005 12:24 am

85merwhat? wrote:I am so curios to see this motor, and drive it, that I cant take it anymore. There has to be some design plans out there somewhere, or even the guy that designed it. I would love to see an aftermarket head based off of that. I would throw some money to get it developed. How far has anybody researched this head?
I hope you have more money than you know what to do with.

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Mike McCreight
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?

Post by Mike McCreight » Fri Oct 28, 2005 8:34 am

There is a 35+ page threadon www.turboford.org about this. Haven't read it for ages, though...
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Post by Freejack » Fri Oct 28, 2005 9:13 am

Where's that gif of the guy beating his head against the keyboard until its a bloody pulp.

85, no offence intended, but please do a search on turboford, before getting too worked up about this.

In the end, it would require around $100,000 investment just to get tooled up and going, and that is without any R&D. That is more than anyone in their right mind would invest in a product for the 2.3 community that would sell in the $2,500+ range.

Jake

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DPDISXR4Ti
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Post by DPDISXR4Ti » Fri Oct 28, 2005 10:24 am

Freejack wrote:In the end, it would require around $100,000 investment just to get tooled up and going, and that is without any R&D. That is more than anyone in their right mind would invest in a product for the 2.3 community that would sell in the $2,500+ range.
What Jake said, with one important addition... "It would sell in quantities less than 100 in the $2500+ range". The reality is that it would need to sell at a price closer to $5000 to be at a break-even point at qty 100. Bottom line - most any way you slice it, the economics don't work, hence the reason nobody has done this. The only way it might possibly get done is for someone to NOT CARE about making any money on the venture. In fact, they would need to be willing to LOOSE a good-sized chunk of change. That's the only way it's getting done.

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Post by Grayson » Fri Oct 28, 2005 11:15 am

Agreeing that having DOHC heads cast is a pipe dream, I've always been curious. Assuming that you can produce an extremely high-quality set of jigs and track down an aerospace welder, is it all that ridiculous to "weld up" a DOHC head? I can envision having a CNC shop make a "bottom plate" with the combustion chambers, ports, valve guides, and bolt holes cut from the bottom, and the bottom part of the coolant passages cut from the top of the "bottom plate". The intake and exhaust runners, which I wouldn't know how to have made off the top of my head, would then be welded to the bottom plate. The sides of the head would then be welded on, perhaps after welding the "top plate" of the head to them. Anyway, this is a crazy idea too, but welding is cheap, CNC machining is cheap, and the material is cheap. After everything is welded together, the head would be finish-decked and the cam holes would be finish-line-bored.

I think it would be fun to brainstorm this, not that is has any more chance of success than simply having heads cast.

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Post by DPDISXR4Ti » Fri Oct 28, 2005 11:23 am

I think a related idea was considered - using the upper half of the existing Volvo head, and just having the lower half fabricated. I don't think it was considered extensively - the fact that the DOHC Volvo heads are relatively scarce probably had something to do with it.

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Post by 85merwhat? » Fri Oct 28, 2005 11:49 am

The aluminum head was a pipe dream. Take the same effort into making the svo head aluminum and there ya go. If I ever had that much money, I would do it if there was enough interest. I lose money all the time with these cars, I dont care, its fun. When people become rich, they usually buy a supercar. I would buy a perfect merkur shell, and drop about the same money for a supercar into it, keeping the body the same. I already love blowing the doors off mustangs and camaros and pulling up to the next light and seeing their dissappointment.

The N/A race world would benefit extremely from a dohc design. You can still throw on four carbs but have almost twice the flow. The svo dohc was designed to keep up with the everchanging market, and it would have been at the top. Hell, 14 years later and dodge comes out with a motor and only has 235 bhp? I think ford was ahead of its time (in america that is) and should have gone with it. The mopar turbo crowd kept going, it just dissappoints me that ford stopped. And if there is a picture, there has to be one somewhere you would think.

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Post by anglin » Fri Oct 28, 2005 11:49 am

Grayson wrote:is it all that ridiculous to "weld up" a DOHC head? ... this is a crazy idea too, but welding is cheap, CNC machining is cheap, and the material is cheap. After everything is welded together, the head would be finish-decked and the cam holes would be finish-line-bored.

I think it would be fun to brainstorm this, not that is has any more chance of success than simply having heads cast.
I was ooohing and aaahing about the idea until it hit me that the internal stresses in the welded assembly would be insane after all that welding. Seems like it would warp uncontrollably as soon as it got heated on the engine.

Anyway, the pipe dream of casting a DOHC aluminum head (for mad amounts of $) has been replaced my the pipe dream of welding a DOHC aluminum head together (for mad amounts of [insert lowercase sigma here]). Mmmm...

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Post by Grayson » Fri Oct 28, 2005 11:52 am

I was ooohing and aaahing about the idea until it hit me that the internal stresses in the welded assembly would be insane after all that welding
Of course we would have the head heat treated after welding to relieve the stress risers. Throwing the head on immediately after welding would be folly! :D

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Post by DPDISXR4Ti » Fri Oct 28, 2005 12:05 pm

The N/A race part is a pipe dream. Race classes have restrictions, and at this level, they are based on stock parts. A custom DOHC head for the Lima would be "all dressed up and nowhere to go" from a race perspective, except for all but the "Outlaw" type of classes.

The "SVO DOHC" head as pictured on the Merkur from the mid 80's exists, and DID, in fact, make it out the back door at Ford. But it really doesn't provide the value that you might think. The production Volvo head is actually more valueable from a modeling standpoint.

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Post by fastmaul » Fri Oct 28, 2005 1:18 pm

85merwhat? wrote: I think ford was ahead of its time (in america that is) and should have gone with it.
I don't know why, but when I read this I'm trying to wonder what do you mean by that?? I mean the UK had awesome RS's, Australia had cool XR's.. :) (or am I reading it wrong? LOL)
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Post by John Brennan » Fri Oct 28, 2005 3:41 pm

I read it as "for the American market; the Euro market was already there."

A situation which, unfortunately, still exists, as evidenced by all the pushrods and live axles on showroom floors here, as well as the popularity of things like NASCAR.
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Post by mangostick » Sun Oct 30, 2005 3:21 am

I agree John..I love my country..but I'll be the first to say that most americans dont know a good car when they see one.
where'd I put that damned hammer?? :-D

Shawn Mangan

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