A forbidden question??? Cutting stock springs...

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worked_xr
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A forbidden question??? Cutting stock springs...

Post by worked_xr »

Can the front springs be cut to lower the car and increase the spring rate? I've done quite a bit of searching and couldn't find a precise answer. It does seem the concensus is that it's best to buy new drop springs with higher rate (uh, 20% increase....oooo...aahhh), or do a coilover conversion (which isn't in my budget anytime soon), but I had to ask anyway. Anyone done it?

Also, I do have some experience with cutting springs on other cars I've owned (early model Mustangs and vintage muscle cars, and a couple Fiats), with good success. But I know those are very different suspension designs. What I did learn from doing those is that matching shock/strut and spring rates is very important. Typically this means using a stiffer strut with softer springs, or a softer strut with stiffer springs.

Any comments?
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Post by Chuck W »

You're not going to gain that much more rate by cutting anyway. IIRC, cutting a full coil only nets about 20% increase anyway.

Best bet is to save a little money and do the C/O conversion.
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Post by Mike McCreight »

Like Chuck says...
With the stock progressive springs that are inadequate from the get go, you'll only lower the car, and not gain much. With the stock springs almost any hard cornering will have you on the bump stops anyway.
For a low or no buck trick, toss some used Tempo front springs in there, and be amazed at the difference. I use 'em on my winter beater XR. They're LOTS stiffer, and just about the same ride height.
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Re: ?

Post by turbofan »

Mike McCreight wrote:Like Chuck says...
With the stock progressive springs that are inadequate from the get go, you'll only lower the car, and not gain much. With the stock springs almost any hard cornering will have you on the bump stops anyway.
For a low or no buck trick, toss some used Tempo front springs in there, and be amazed at the difference. I use 'em on my winter beater XR. They're LOTS stiffer, and just about the same ride height.
what about rear springs? :? i'm gonna do the tempo thing, but is there anything i can do out back, like maybe spacers or spacer springs?

obviously this is a shot in the dark. :oops:
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Post by Mike McCreight »

This is one area where I think a call to Chris (s) at MC2 would be in order. If you're going to go through the trouble of re and re-ing the rears, it'd be a good idea to have some idea of where you're headed. Spacers are a pretty bad idea, based on my experience, mostly removing them from XRs.
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Post by DPDISXR4Ti »

Hey, that's a new one (to me any way) on using the Tempo front springs. Makes sense that they'd be stiffer, given that the Tempo is FWD, but I had no idea the Tempo shared the same spring parameter with the XR. I imagine too that the V6 Tempo would have stiffer springs than the I4, so there's probably even a choice in spring rates! :)

For rear springs, as the boyz from MC2 have discovered, our cars share the same spring size with NASCAR, so there's just a bazillion options on spring length and rate, plus they're cheap due to economies of scale. Not worth hunting around for used ones here.
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Post by turbofan »

DPDISXR4Ti wrote:Hey, that's a new one (to me any way) on using the Tempo front springs. Makes sense that they'd be stiffer, given that the Tempo is FWD, but I had no idea the Tempo shared the same spring parameter with the XR. I imagine too that the V6 Tempo would have stiffer springs than the I4, so there's probably even a choice in spring rates! :)

For rear springs, as the boyz from MC2 have discovered, our cars share the same spring size with NASCAR, so there's just a bazillion options on spring length and rate, plus they're cheap due to economies of scale. Not worth hunting around for used ones here.
woo hoo!!! i gots ta get new rear springs for my red car too then! they're stock springs that have been cut.

*jumping the gun*

wait a minute... that's now my brothers car. he can drive with unbalanced springs for all i care! :twisted: at least until he starts making payments on the car! :evil:

nascar springs eh... hmm.... time for some research! :D
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Post by worked_xr »

I saw a post from cosworth from last year about installing rear springs from a Mustang 5.0. Considering the huge number of aftermarket spring manufacturers for those cars, and the large volume of alternate spring rates that are sure to be available, I think that might be a very reasonable way to go.

Also, I've found that 5"-6" of ground clearance is about the minimum I like for any street car. Will lowering the XR to this level cause wheel/tire clearance issues? I'm considering going with a set of 16s or 17s.
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Post by Colin »

Anglin/Grayson/MC² Racing sells Hypercoil springs for a fair price - I'd definitely check in with them. It's kind of a pain to change rear springs, so I'd imagine you'd want to do it right the first time. ;)

I've got the 750 lb/in Hypercoils in the back of my car, along with nylon STA bushings and poly beam mounts, and Koni yellows on the 3rd-stiffest setting - it rides very comfortably, about the same ride quality I was getting from the worn out rubber bushings, stock springs, old shocks, etc. Seems you can go pretty stiff with the springs and still be comfortable. :)

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Post by xrian »

I agree with Colin. MC2 were very helpfull specing out the spring rates for the Rally car and loads of other parts.
Hats off to them!
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Re: A forbidden question??? Cutting stock springs...

Post by Black94 5.0 »

worked_xr wrote:Can the front springs be cut to lower the car and increase the spring rate? I've done quite a bit of searching and couldn't find a precise answer. It does seem the concensus is that it's best to buy new drop springs with higher rate (uh, 20% increase....oooo...aahhh), or do a coilover conversion (which isn't in my budget anytime soon), but I had to ask anyway. Anyone done it?

Also, I do have some experience with cutting springs on other cars I've owned (early model Mustangs and vintage muscle cars, and a couple Fiats), with good success. But I know those are very different suspension designs. What I did learn from doing those is that matching shock/strut and spring rates is very important. Typically this means using a stiffer strut with softer springs, or a softer strut with stiffer springs.

Any comments?
Well, if this helps you out, I plan on cutting my BAT springs very soon...With my 17" wheels and "stock" ride heights springs(actually taller) the fender gap is just hidious!....I will definately post pics of the before and after...If worst comes to worst I'll have to order new springs from MC2...I figure I have nothing to loose...

-On a side note, when I ordered my BAT springs and Bilsteins I specifically asked which spring had a higher rate, their lowering springs or the stock height spring...The sales person told me that they were identical springs and the only difference was the lowered spring had "1 less coil"...Then I asked, "so, it's not really a problem, I could cut the dead-coil if need be"...He said, "yeah"....THEN, I called last week to double check and to ask for any more info that would assist me in cutting the springs and i got a TOTALLY different answer...Customer service is terrible there and I only deal with BAT because I basically have to for selected XR parts....BTW, I waited months for my Bilstiens, BAT had to order them from the UK AND never told me that when I ordered them...I am EXTREMELY frustrated with BAT....Sorry, guy's but I had to vent...
*Bilsteins, MC2 250# coil overs front, 600# rear, BAT sway bars, full 3" exh, Gillis valve, K&N, MC2 Diff mount and bushings, 17x7 Team Dynamics Monza's, 225/45-17's, Eaton Posi, RS500 (clone) intercooler/radiator, Forge BOV and LA computer and big VAM...
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Re: A forbidden question??? Cutting stock springs...

Post by worked_xr »

Black94 5.0 wrote: Well, if this helps you out, I plan on cutting my BAT springs very soon...With my 17" wheels and "stock" ride heights springs(actually taller) the fender gap is just hidious!....I will definately post pics of the before and after...If worst comes to worst I'll have to order new springs from MC2...I figure I have nothing to loose...

-On a side note, when I ordered my BAT springs and Bilsteins I specifically asked which spring had a higher rate, their lowering springs or the stock height spring...The sales person told me that they were identical springs and the only difference was the lowered spring had "1 less coil"...Then I asked, "so, it's not really a problem, I could cut the dead-coil if need be"...He said, "yeah"....THEN, I called last week to double check and to ask for any more info that would assist me in cutting the springs and i got a TOTALLY different answer...Customer service is terrible there and I only deal with BAT because I basically have to for selected XR parts....BTW, I waited months for my Bilstiens, BAT had to order them from the UK AND never told me that when I ordered them...I am EXTREMELY frustrated with BAT....Sorry, guy's but I had to vent...
Thanks for the info... I've heard of similar experiences with BAT, but it may just be the nature of them getting stuff from overseas. Then again, if it's gotta come from overseas, why not just order direct anyway? Hmmm...
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Post by wesvailco »

hmmmm....next time you call and make an order try this:

"high" my name is so and so, i would like to see if you have "____" IN STOCK and READY TO SHIP.

she'll ask for a part number (which you should already have if calling BAT, the catalog is online) and she'll check, honest. if its in-stock and ready to ship, expect it in 2-5 daze depending on shipping. customer service nowadays sucks EVERYWHERE.....i make it as easy as pie for those guys. i figure the person on the other end is as "high" as i am....speak slowly and clearly, don't cough alot.

-if its not in stock, try another vendor...with the same sentence.
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Post by Colin »

wesvailco wrote:customer service nowadays sucks EVERYWHERE.....i make it as easy as pie for those guys.
Yeah... you try working a customer service job for a while - report back how you like it after you deal with all these condescending jackasses with a "customer is always right" attitude, coming in acting like they've got something to prove. :roll:

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Post by fast_xr4@yahoo.com »

Stock front springs are 97lb/in I've read. Stock rears are 500lb/in. there much stronger because they are located on the frame rails much further in on the trailing arm or lever. Hmm...talk about your cheap upgrade. Anyone want to buy my stock rear springs? I've got 450lb coil overs already and dont' need them. I replaced my rears with 750 lb Hyperco springs from mc2racing.com

Also taking out the rubber insert on top of the rear springs should lower the car cosiderably. I'd say an inch. I'll probably do this after the springs settle. The Hyperco's don't seem to want to seat on the stock rubber perch so it could be a severe drop for me.
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