vibration / noise

XR4Ti / Sierra / Sierra Cosworth Discussions - Questions, problem resolution, general talk, technical tips and modifications.
Frag
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Post by Frag » Fri Oct 13, 2006 5:32 pm

demonfire wrote:I wish i had more free time than i do. :(
Did you say that before or after you got off the phone with him...?:lol:
:)

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Ray
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Post by Ray » Sat Oct 14, 2006 6:06 am

Frag, i dont know if i feel comfortable calling John out of the blue without verifying that i CAN call him here first.

lol
-Ray
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1985 Merkur XR4Ti -#141 CP "Miss Daisy"
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janvanv
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Post by janvanv » Sun Oct 15, 2006 2:00 am

demonfire wrote:Frag, i dont know if i feel comfortable calling John out of the blue without verifying that i CAN call him here first.

lol
Look, you think I'd put the number up on www.jvab.f4.ca if I was one of the generation thats all worried about calling and would get upset if people called?
I make performance stuff for Xratties and (gasp!!) Volvos and have done Saabs more than full time since way back in last century when all we had were phones with cords.

Don't be shy.
Just remember that its Pacific time zone and if you call at like 0745 I will hunt you down and masserkrate you to death.
Sometime after 0930 means I'll have a couple of cups of hot tea into me and might remember to speak mostly English.
If you're local I say just drop in any time.

So remember, relax, be mellow.
Have a pen handy cause there's always things to write down.
John Vanlandingham
JVAB Imports
Seattle, WA, USA

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Ray
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Post by Ray » Sun Oct 15, 2006 5:51 am

I will make the effort to remember to call then. I'm off to autoX today (with my XR that makes amazing sounds) but i might be codriving a friend's scoobaru.
-Ray
1985 Ford F150 - Tow Missile
1985 Merkur XR4Ti -#141 CP "Miss Daisy"
2005 Subaru LGT
http://www.cartct.com

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mangostick
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jvab trans mount

Post by mangostick » Tue Nov 14, 2006 11:29 pm

Hey John, I'm curious to see if you have any of the narrow tunnel mounts available.. if so I'll be calling you.. actualy.. I'll call you anyway :wink: I want/need one and have capital to work with. .. I have some questions to ask about effectively running a single piece shaft and angles and all that. I'm having issues that I know there are proven solutions for. I just need to speak to the right source for that info.
where'd I put that damned hammer?? :-D

Shawn Mangan

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Grayson
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Post by Grayson » Wed Nov 15, 2006 11:15 am

Austin Cole sent this to me:
I fixed my gear clash problem today. You probably won't believe what it was- The clutch being adjusted improperly. When we hooked up the t9 cable we made a custom clevis. The clutch was on the floor and must have been slipping the whole time. I installed a longer clevis which allowed my self adjuster to finally engage itself and now my clutch is at the top, and the gear clash is gone completely. On, decel, accel, sharp decel, etc... in all gears.

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DPDISXR4Ti
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Post by DPDISXR4Ti » Wed Nov 15, 2006 11:15 am

John's X-member is a nice piece, but I wouldn't expect it to be a "miracle cure" of NVH. It may very well HELP, I just wouldn't expect it to SOLVE the issue single-handedly.

What are your pinion angles at this point? I'm curious what the MC2 diff mount set the angle back there to, as I seem to recall I wanted the diff angle "more parallel" to the floor, but had no easy means to change it.
Brad

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mangostick
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ds vibration issues

Post by mangostick » Wed Nov 15, 2006 12:25 pm

I dont expect it to be a complete fix.. but its sure as hell alot more stable than the rapido setup that I've got in there now. Even though my diff mount is pretty new.. its still a factory part and pretty soft. I do at the moment have 1/16" of shim between the diff mount and the floor.. that puts my pinion angle around 3* up (assuming when I took my measurements that the car itself was perfectly level) .. the trans is 3* in the opposite plane.. granted by all other literature and whatnot they should be facing the other directions.. but.. for one our diffs are fixed and have nowhere near the torque movement of a traditional 4 link or leaf spring rear end. Second.. I dont have enough room to move the trans up enough to cover that angle. Before I shimmed the rear end at the diff mount the angle was around 1-1.5*+ (up) .. I've got most of my vibration on deacceleration over 80mph. Down from 100 its horrible. I didnt push the car any farther than that out of fear alone.. I dont want to risk breaking anything else. I have a good feeling the shaft itself had something to do with it though.. today its getting another run at the ballancer. We'll see how it is after that. I still want one of Johns mounts though :wink:
where'd I put that damned hammer?? :-D

Shawn Mangan

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Ray
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Post by Ray » Wed Nov 15, 2006 5:20 pm

Grayson wrote:Austin Cole sent this to me:
I fixed my gear clash problem today. You probably won't believe what it was- The clutch being adjusted improperly. When we hooked up the t9 cable we made a custom clevis. The clutch was on the floor and must have been slipping the whole time. I installed a longer clevis which allowed my self adjuster to finally engage itself and now my clutch is at the top, and the gear clash is gone completely. On, decel, accel, sharp decel, etc... in all gears.

hrm - i'm using a t5 cable and my clutch disengages very short in the throw of the pedal - however first depression you can hear the adjuster work. might be worth another shot- but then again my car is going into winter hibernation in a week and a half.
-Ray
1985 Ford F150 - Tow Missile
1985 Merkur XR4Ti -#141 CP "Miss Daisy"
2005 Subaru LGT
http://www.cartct.com

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Grayson
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Post by Grayson » Thu Nov 16, 2006 9:48 am

I have a feeling adjusting the clutch will solve my issue. If I place the shifter into the reverse gate without first selecting an alternate gear, the gearbox will grind and not engage the gear. This means that my clutch is not fully disengaging, and my input shaft is still turning. There are no synchros for reverse, so it shows all.

That doesn't mean it's your issue, but Austin's discovery is certainly the first solution that I have ever heard of regarding this gear clash problem.

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DPDISXR4Ti
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Re: ds vibration issues

Post by DPDISXR4Ti » Thu Nov 16, 2006 10:14 am

mangostick wrote: that puts my pinion angle around 3* up (assuming when I took my measurements that the car itself was perfectly level) .. the trans is 3* in the opposite plane..
When you say "opposite" do you really mean "parallel"? To me, "opposite" would mean they're both pointing up towards the floor pan, and I don't think it's possible (or desireable) to have the output shaft of the T5 pointing like that.

I recall now that I had a similar angle on the diff pinion, and I was able to get the T5 output at a similar parallel angle downward by spacing the X-member down quite a bit. But that didn't give me the most vibration-free setup.

What helped more, that I did later on, was spacing the motor UP as much as possible, which meant that I didn't have to space the T5 X-member down as much to get a desireable angle. Make sense? I actually did this for a totally different reason - needed clearance for the AL pan over the sub-frame.

I bet your new ds is balanced fine. They would have had to "dis-obey" what the machine was telling them to screw that up.
Brad

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DPDISXR4Ti
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Post by DPDISXR4Ti » Thu Nov 16, 2006 10:19 am

Grayson wrote:If I place the shifter into the reverse gate without first selecting an alternate gear, the gearbox will grind and not engage the gear.
I think this is considered "normal operation" of the early WC T5's. I believe it was "fixed" in the later versions. I'd be surprised if you're able to fix this issue via clutch engagement, but I'd be happy to be proven wrong.
Brad

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mangostick
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Re: ds vibration issues

Post by mangostick » Thu Nov 16, 2006 2:13 pm

DPDISXR4Ti wrote:[When you say "opposite" do you really mean "parallel"?

I bet your new ds is balanced fine. They would have had to "dis-obey" what the machine was telling them to screw that up.
Yep.. I have the flanges parrallel to each other.. if you were to be able to take a cross section look with reference lines drawn it would look like this
trans / / diff

haha.. funny you mention that.. since the second time My contact went and ballanced it himself this time instead of letting a employee do it.. had to move the trans side weight around 15*.. and had to move the rear end weight almost 170*!!!! Thats a hell of a difference. I jokingly told him he should fire that guy.. but the look on his face was'nt as funny. He was pissed about the stupid mistake and got it fixed for me along with a huge appology. I'll have it in today and we'll see how it goes. I'll have to mess with it later to get it super smooth.. but right now as long as its not shakin like a crack head around 80mph.. I'll be fine till I can mess with it further.
where'd I put that damned hammer?? :-D

Shawn Mangan

Frag
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Post by Frag » Thu Nov 16, 2006 3:37 pm

DPDISXR4Ti wrote:
Grayson wrote:If I place the shifter into the reverse gate without first selecting an alternate gear, the gearbox will grind and not engage the gear.
I think this is considered "normal operation" of the early WC T5's. I believe it was "fixed" in the later versions. I'd be surprised if you're able to fix this issue via clutch engagement, but I'd be happy to be proven wrong.
My 4cyl T5 did that and so does my T9, it's recently gotten quite bad with the T9.
:)

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John Brennan
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Post by John Brennan » Thu Nov 16, 2006 3:54 pm

Be sure to see "Dying Art: The Twilight of the Double-Clutching Era," coming soon to a small screen near you. :wink:
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