Rear Fender Rolling - Tips? BTDT?

Post by **PDenbigh** » Thu Oct 12, 2006 7:44 am

XR World,

I have to roll my rear fenders quite a bit, as I am fitting 17x8 wheels with 245/45/17 Hoosiers. What have experiences been out there in such a project? Due to the construction of the rear fender section, I fear I may have to cut the inner well, roll the fender, and then weld a patch to maintain structural integrity.

I have a fender roller tool, and I have been able to flare my front fenders out over 2" which holds the same wheel/tire setup well. So, the fronts aren't a problem.

Any tips or BTDTÃ¢â‚¬â„¢s?

Thanks!
Peter

Frag · Post by **Frag** » Thu Oct 12, 2006 9:58 am

mcÃ¯Â¿Â½racing pushes the limits again - 275/40R17 - viewtopic.php?t=6804&start=0&postdays=0 ... hlight=275

285 30 18 V710 with CCW racing wheels - viewtopic.php?t=6835&start=0&postdays=0 ... hlight=275

ideas on how to make the wheel sit in further? - viewtopic.php?t=7926&highlight=255

A few pics of big wheel fitment - http://www.merkurtech.com/merkurtech/pi ... s/main.php

Post by **PDenbigh** » Thu Oct 12, 2006 10:08 am

Frag,

Thanks for the posts. My challange is that I not only want wide tires, but my car has to be low... and thus, the need to clearance the fenders.

Frag · Post by **Frag** » Thu Oct 12, 2006 10:19 am

Lowered and big wheels and tires!? I think that would be a first. I'm not aware of anyone who has put a big wheel/tire combo on and was lowered. This is not really the type of vehicle that you can tuck the wheels in the fenders without serious modification if thats what your going for...

Post by **PDenbigh** » Thu Oct 12, 2006 12:04 pm

I was previously running 245/25/16, lowered, with slightly rolled fenders and was having no problems. But, with the hoosiers, they are equivilant to about a 265 as far as street tire width...

Post by **Grayson** » Thu Oct 12, 2006 12:30 pm

Frag - Peter is under no false understanding about the available space within the fenders. The only reason big tires don't fit XRs is because of the fender lips, and possibly the front bumper where it attaches to the front of the wheel well depending on how wide you are going. He just wants to move the fender lips somewhere else, and is looking for inspiration on how to do it in the rear. The front is trivial - you just flare them. The rear, on the other hand, is a complex area. Up front the fender wells are lined by plastic, whereas in the rear the fender wells are lined with metal. To flare the fronts, you remove the liners and push away the lips. To flare the rears, well, you can't just remove the liners - they're welded to the quarterpanels. Peter just wants to know how others, if any, have done this.

Wish I could help Peter - I haven't gone there yet! When I do, one option I will look into is the possibility of overlaying a flare, be it a thunder saloon type gigantic flare or a small bubble-style flare. It may be possible to run one of those whilst merely cutting away all the metal on the quarterpanel lip up to where it meets the internal metal. Unfortunately, I have a feeling that there isn't much metal that can be cut away before you hit the point where it meets up with the internal metal.

Post by **DPDISXR4Ti** » Thu Oct 12, 2006 12:52 pm

Sort of a smart-ass answer (like you'd expect less from me?)....

...but did you also receive the e-mail SPAM from Erebuni trying to unload their wide-body flare kit?

Post by **John Brennan** » Thu Oct 12, 2006 1:59 pm

You beat me to it, Brad-- seems like you would need to go widebody or go to a shop that can redo the sheetmetal, as for tubbing in drag cars, etc.

Post by **Grayson** » Thu Oct 12, 2006 2:49 pm

The problem is that the widebody kit might not eliminate Peter's requirement of having to remove some quarterpanel metal from where he would rather have his tires residing.

Perhaps this should be his question:

Ok, I need to remove a lot of metal from my rear quarterpanels at the wheel openings. Unfortunately that is where some of the unibody is welded to the quarterpanel. For those that have opened this area up, can you give me any tips related to separating these panels and reconnecting them elsewhere?

janvanv · Post by **janvanv** » Thu Oct 12, 2006 10:08 pm

Of course it would be sacrilege, blasphemy, desecration, profanation, and a low foul violation to even imagine that somebody could somehow survive with a tire and wheel combo less manly.

Afterall, bigger is always better.

Post by **merk23literturbo** » Thu Oct 12, 2006 11:12 pm

Due to the construction of the rear fender section, I fear I may have to cut the inner well, roll the fender, and then weld a patch to maintain structural integrity.

I will just answer this question. The Structure of the car will not be affected if you do this. Some parts of the car are Structural, some are not. The quarter panel and the inner fenderwell are not structural parts of this unibody. What you propose won't hurt the structure. I am using the strict definition of the word Structure as it applies to Unibody construction.

Ray · Post by **Ray** » Fri Oct 13, 2006 7:13 am

+

=

Post by **Grayson** » Fri Oct 13, 2006 9:15 am

a tire and wheel combo less manly.

Afterall, bigger is always better.

It is absolutely irrefutable that XRs respond not just well, but extremely well to tire width upgrades. In my experience the car keeps going faster and faster as you increase to 225mm, 255mm, and 275mm width tires. I'll admit that the peak seems to be falling somewhere around the 275mm width range, so sticking a 315 under the car might not yield much, except perhaps in the rear of a high-powered RWD XR. As it stands though, from a handling perspective, it appears that the holy grail of XR tires is the 285/30R18. This tire is both wide and short, and has become a staple in road racing and autocross.

BMW M3s, Subaru WRX STis, and Mitsubishi Lancer Evolutions - all cars somewhat similar to the XR in performance - have also shown the 285/30R18 to be the optimal solution.

Of course, going fat doesn't help in rally, but for just about every other form of XR motorsport, it's plain stupid to use "less manly" solutions. After all, if you're racing, you want to go fast, right? Is this not the definition of racing - going fast? If you want to go fast, why would you use a slow wheel and tire combo?

Post by **PDenbigh** » Fri Oct 13, 2006 9:45 am

Thansk for all the responses folks! I espicailaly like the pictures of the sawzall, welder, etc. It is also the most accurate to what I did as a solution!

The wheels are 17x8, 25mm offset. I have coilovers in the front actually. I have about 1/4" cleanance between the inside and the shock and I am very happy with that. Getting the fronts rolled out enoguh was no problem.

For the rears, I ended up having to just cut the inner fender with a cuttoff wheel. I then seperated the layers, rolled the fender out quite a bit, and later I am going to weld in a replacement liner that is about 3" higher than the origional.

I'll post some pics for future reference sometime next week. I have a track event at Summit Point, WV this weekend so I'm waiting to weld until I know it's "enough".

Also, merk23literturbo, I agree to an extent. I think on a stock car those attachment points might have some effect. However, I have a 10 point cage welded in the car, so I think for one weekend I will have no worries. Granted, I can see the outside from the inside, but as long as it doesn't rain that's not a concern either.

Also, grayson, thanks for the backup and clarification.

And, Jvab, I know bigger isn't always better. However, since I crew for a Grand Am team, I get these slightly used hoosiers for free. Thus, I'm willing to make the sacrafices needed to squish them in place

.

Thanks for the suggestions!

Peter

Post by **PDenbigh** » Fri Oct 13, 2006 9:48 am

DPDISXR4Ti wrote:Sort of a smart-ass answer (like you'd expect less from me?)....

...but did you also receive the e-mail SPAM from Erebuni trying to unload their wide-body flare kit?

I'd never expect less Brad

. I'm looking for the cheaper solution right now. The thought of replacing a rear 1/4 is about 2 months from making since at this point. 2 months from now, after I've beat my head trying to get it to fit and it still won't, it'll make perfect since I'm sure

.

Thanks though!