A4LD trans swap into XR4Ti

[milehighXR]

I need some more help.

Can I used the Merkur C3 pump, bellhousing and plate in the A4ld transmission?

Yes see below:

I see the difference in the pumps the 2.3L pump uses 6mm bolts and the 4.0L uses 8mm bolts, and I also see what is the difference in the plates, but I'm looking at the bellhousing casting between the bellhousing and the transmission and the passageways looks routed differently is that for the overdrive? So I can add holes to the 2.3L plate to match the 4.0L plate bolt the pump in and swap bellhousings and this is all I need to do for the engine side of the transmission or am I missing something?

The 4.0L Ford Explorer Transmission that I have has a 3 pin connector on the driverside of the transmission. I'm guessing that is for the torque converter lockup and the 3-4 shift solenoid. I searched for a Merkur Scorpio transmission so I could swap valve bodies but I was unable to find one but I did find a 87 Ford 2.9L Bronco transmission that has a 2 pin connector in the same location as the Explorer's 3 pin connector. Would the Bronco transmission have the valve body like the Scorpio transmission and can I use that?

Should be able to as long as it is a 1994 or earlier case like Larry suggested above.

If I can't and I were to wire a switch in the Ford Explorer Transmission for the 3-4 shift solenoid it will shift the overdrive part of the transmission. It looks like it not even part of the 1-2-3-N-R-P part of the transmission so what happens when I slow down will the transmission downshifts from 4th to 2nd, or will it shift into 2nd with the overdrive engaged blowing up the transmission or destroying the overdrive part of the transmission?

Not sure, my advice would be to get an LB2/3, or 8UA Turbocoupe EEC-IV and use that. I believe one those will control all the trans electronics.

The reason it is not part of the pattern, is that on the 2 solenoid trannies, it is electronically controlled, and there is a lock out switch on the tree to lock out OD when towing.

Good luck let us know how it goes.

[Freejack]

Note in all the ECU documentation I've seen the function for the 3/4 shift is called 3/4 shift inhibit. Based on the info I found here if you did not provide a switch, it would simply hold 3rd and not shift into 4th.

If you energize that pin, I believe the tranny would simply shift into 4th early.

Jake
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[milehighXR]

The way I read what you linked above is that the ECU energizes the solenoid to allow the shift to happen. Elsewise when the solenoid is off(no power from ECU) no shift. The ATSG book I have seems to suggest that the solenoid needs power from the EEC to get 3-4 upshift, and says to look at the EEC for the first 3 steps of diagnostics.

[larrydavis]

The Page from the ATSG book is misleading in it states that the C3 pump can be used but if we take note the A4LD stator has a groove in it which has a sealing ring in it, this is for the lock-up portion of the convertor which the C3 stator doesn't have.
The bell housing and plate can be used but the plate has to have a hole or two drilled in it so it matches the old A4 plate.
I have however always thought that if you used the C3 stator you could use the C3 convertor and just not have lock-up but Ford says it can't be done and I just haven't tried it yet.

[AMXSC]

The Page from the ATSG book is misleading in it states that the C3 pump can be used but if we take note the A4LD stator has a groove in it which has a sealing ring in it, this is for the lock-up portion of the convertor which the C3 stator doesn't have.
The bell housing and plate can be used but the plate has to have a hole or two drilled in it so it matches the old A4 plate.
I have however always thought that if you used the C3 stator you could use the C3 convertor and just not have lock-up but Ford says it can't be done and I just haven't tried it yet.

Does this mean I did it wrong?

I don't want to sound like I don't know what I'm doing but I have never done this before so I guess I don't know what I'm doing, and I do thank you all for all the help.


Here is what I did

I started with an 4.0L A4ld transmission out of an Ford Explorer. I don't know what year the transmission it is but I know it was out of an early 90s Explorer. It has a 3 pin connector on the transmission that has wires going into the transmission and attaching to 2 solenoids on the valve body.


This is what is done to the valve body.

I swapped in a 87 2.9L A4ld valve body and 2 pin connector that has 1 solenoid on the valve body from a Ford Bronco. After I compared the maze of passages ways between the 2 valve bodies. I found that the 2.9L transmission has an additional ball in the maze. I'm guessing that is a check ball for the overdrive part of the transmission and the 4.0L transmission overdrive solenoid replaced that? I transferred the ball over from the 2.9L transmission to the 4.0L transmission.


This is what is done to the front of the transmission.

I pulled out of the Merkur c3 transmission the c3 bellhousing, c3 pump and c3 plate, and I pulled out of the Explorer A4ld transmission the A4ld bellhousing, A4ld pump and A4ld plate. I then lined up the A4ld plate and the c3 plate. Marked and drilled the c3 plate to match the A4ld plate. Then I installed the c3 plate, c3 pump and c3 bellhousing on the Explorer A4ld. The only difference here is the I used 6mm bolts from the c3 instead of the 8mm bolts from the A4ld.


Anyway here are my questions.

Did I do this correctly or did I mess it up?

Is the pump the just the 2 gears that one runs inside the other or is there more to it?

All I swaped were the 2 gears is this wrong?

Is the stater the thing that sticks out of the front of the transmission into the torque converter?

If the above question is yes. I used the stater from the 4.0L A4LD and the pump gears from the 2.3L C3. Is this wrong?

Do I need the swap the stater from the 2.3L C3 transmission into the A4LD?

[milehighXR]

The Page from the ATSG book is misleading in it states that the C3 pump can be used but if we take note the A4LD stator has a groove in it which has a sealing ring in it, this is for the lock-up portion of the convertor which the C3 stator doesn't have.
The bell housing and plate can be used but the plate has to have a hole or two drilled in it so it matches the old A4 plate.
I have however always thought that if you used the C3 stator you could use the C3 convertor and just not have lock-up but Ford says it can't be done and I just haven't tried it yet.

Does this mean I did it wrong?

I don't want to sound like I don't know what I'm doing but I have never done this before so I guess I don't know what I'm doing, and I do thank you all for all the help.

Here is what I did

I started with an 4.0L A4ld transmission out of an Ford Explorer. I don't know what year the transmission it is but I know it was out of an early 90s Explorer. It has a 3 pin connector on the transmission that has wires going into the transmission and attaching to 2 solenoids on the valve body.


This is what is done to the valve body.

I swapped in a 87 2.9L A4ld valve body and 2 pin connector that has 1 solenoid on the valve body from a Ford Bronco. After I compared the maze of passages ways between the 2 valve bodies. I found that the 2.9L transmission has an additional ball in the maze. I'm guessing that is a check ball for the overdrive part of the transmission and the 4.0L transmission overdrive solenoid replaced that? I transferred the ball over from the 2.9L transmission to the 4.0L transmission.

Yeah, I haven't figured out which check ball scheme to use. My ATSG book show 5, or 6 different sets of locations, 2 for Merkur(and we know only one Merk got the A4, and it only had one solenoid). I'll let Larry handle that one.

This is what is done to the front of the transmission.

I pulled out of the Merkur c3 transmission the c3 bellhousing, c3 pump and c3 plate, and I pulled out of the Explorer A4ld transmission the A4ld bellhousing, A4ld pump and A4ld plate. I then lined up the A4ld plate and the c3 plate. Marked and drilled the c3 plate to match the A4ld plate. Then I installed the c3 plate, c3 pump and c3 bellhousing on the Explorer A4ld. The only difference here is the I used 6mm bolts from the c3 instead of the 8mm bolts from the A4ld.

Use the A4Ld pump here. It makes sense to me, especially if the C3 pump is missing parts for lock up. You'll want lock up on the converter for cruising down the interstate.

All I swaped were the 2 gears is this wrong?

Is the stater the thing that sticks out of the front of the transmission into the torque converter?

If the above question is yes. I used the stater from the 4.0L A4LD and the pump gears from the 2.3L C3. Is this wrong?

Yes the sator sticks out the front of the trans. See what I wrote above. I wasn't aware of the gears being interchangeable I would think keeping the gears, and stator matched to each set would be the way to go.

[larrydavis]

I going to try this again,typed up a reply and when I hit submit It didn't seen to go and asked me to log in again so if to post come in you folks will know why.

To the question did I do it wrong well yes and no so this is what you should have done.
You should have used the A4 pump/stator with it's gears, always try and keep the gears with the pump they came in.
You don't need to use the C3 plate unless the A4 plate is worn to bad to use but it can be used now that you drilled the needed holes.
So you end up with the C3 bell the A4 stator/pump and gears and the A4 or C3 plate.
While the pump is apart you should replace the seal and bushing even if they look good but before installing these you should drill the small hole behind the seal larger, this is the drain back hole and it can be drilled up to 3/8" also drill the plate and the matching hole in the stator to the same size this helps prevent front seal leaks.
Install the new bushing and seal and then reinstall the Stator/pump back on the bellhousing (Note) you must use a pump alignment tool when putting these together to prevent damage being done to pump when you start the car also not using this tool will cause front seal leaks.

As for the check balls in the valvebody, you want to use the arangement that came in the valvebody you are using.

Hope this helps Larry

[AMXSC]

So all I need to do is swap the C3 pump gears inside the A4 stator to the A4 gears pump gears and this should be correct. Also what is the difference in the pump gears when I compared them they look identical between the C3 and the A4ld?

I think I should have also wrote that I used the valve body from the 2.9L A4ld in the 4.0L A4ld with the additional check ball that came with the 2.9L A4ld valve body. I read what I wrote and what I wrote doesn't sound like what I did. Sorry.

I thought there would be no difference between the modified C3 plate and the stock A4 plate. So if I used the pump gears and stater from the A4ld. Could I have gotten away with just swapping bellhousings and using the 6mm mounting bolts in the 8mm holes or should I redrill and tap them for the 8mm bolts?

Also I used a torque converter to line up the pump to the stater before installing them with the bellhousing. Do I still need to use the pump alignment tool? Where is a good place to get this alignment tool?

[larrydavis]

The difference in the gears is just the wear pattern and you will most likely get away with leaving the C3 gears in it.

You are good with the way you did the valvebody.

There is no difference between the modified C3 plate and the A4 plate I was just trying to state you didn't have to go thru the trouble to drill the C3 plate when you had the A4 plate that would just fine.

Yes you could have gotten away with just swapping the bellhousing and using the 6mm bolts as I have done this before with no problems.

Using the converter to align the pump and bellhousing won't work you will still have problems maybe not right away but you will have them.
There is a way to get around this and it's not as good as using the right tool and it's a little trouble but it works and that is you mount the converter on the motor then you mount the bellhousing on the motor then you take the plate and the stator with gears installed in it and install on the bellhousing, then with one hand push the stator over and up toward what would be
2:o' clock position and while holding it there tighten the bolts with the other hand.
I know it's a lot of trouble but it's the best way if you don't have the tool.
I have done it this way many times before I broke down and got the tool and never had any problems.

[milehighXR]

The tool is only $20.00 from Sonnax, or ATP even. Just buy it, and be glad you did. If I had time and material I'd machine you one...

[larrydavis]

The Sonnax site list the tool you need as part number JT-0168K Bellhousing to pump to gear alignment tool.
Price $68.34 But they are out of stock and I didn't see any tools listed at ATP's site.

There was a time that I thought about putting some pumps together and selling the things but it seemed no one had any interest at the time but would be interested in doing some up if anyone would like one.

[milehighXR]

Man I coulda sworn I'd seen one for $20.00 somewhere...

[Teedyo]

I'm stuck trying to figure out your terminology. In every transmission I've worked on, the stator is the part of the torque converter which directs fluid between the impeller and the turbine. Perhaps ya'll are referring to the stator shaft which is the immobile part which sticks out the front of the transmission?

[milehighXR]

I have also heard it called stator support, but yes that is what we are talking about.

[leesonic]

Interesting stuff, I'm using a A4LDe in my 4i.

Rob,

Your Sierra looks like it has a Mk2 Manta front grill with aftermarket headlamps... or am I imagining it?

Lee.