Folvo Racing Build

[kiwimanz]

Hey all, new to the forum but not to XR4Ti's
I'm embarking on a new project turning my XR into a race / street car. I say race first because it will be bias to that application. I've done a ton of racing in the past and built cars, but never a turbo! This forced induction is a new game.

Platform will be the 16V conversion, I'm pretty sorted on this thanks to some great internet posts. Where the challenge is, is ground control. I intend to lower the car at least 50mm. I've done the 2.5" coil conversions on billsteins before, but looking to get some decent suspension with out having to sell a kidney.

I've been on Burton's site and it looks like strut braces adjustable TCA's are the way to go. it's hardly worth making them for the price they charge especially with the exchange rate these days. I plan to move the sway / roll bar mounts to the front and make my own with drop links.

Anyone have suggestions in this dept. Also how much of the Sierra stuff crosses over to the XR?
cheers
Linz

[merkurdriver]

http://www.mc2racing.com have lots of suspension stuff here is the US FYI.
The COSWORTH stuff is *mostly* bolt on and go...JVAB has some slick suspension stuff also...
I have some suspension stuff here, too; poly bushings, regular or BLACK. Lowering springs for stock-style struts, some Adrelanine Motorsports rear triangulated suspension bars from the UK, etc etc - if any of that interests you I'm at merkurdriver@gmail.com

[Matt01]

Just wanted to chime in on the front "coilover conversions" people do with these cars. Originally I was running used cosworth coilovers, but they're blown and trash.

So I got shocks and converted them. I used the 8" spring, and poly strut bushings, I imagine if you modify your front strut tower this wont be an issue, but if you keep it stock, you'll find that the drop is not astounding. Now if you go a 7" spring, it'll do the job, but you'll have so little suspension travel, if you live near bumpy roads you'll always hit the bumpstops for sure..

I dont know if the bilsteins have this issue, maybe someone can let us know. Im going to run this set up for now, because it rides so much better than before, but I might end up just buying some cosworth Gaz Golds for the front, like I have in the rear.

The fact remains, to do a decent suspension, you'll need to sell a kidney.

[Spaldino]

Just wanted to chime in on the front "coilover conversions" people do with these cars. Originally I was running used cosworth coilovers, but they're blown and trash.

So I got shocks and converted them. I used the 8" spring, and poly strut bushings, I imagine if you modify your front strut tower this wont be an issue, but if you keep it stock, you'll find that the drop is not astounding. Now if you go a 7" spring, it'll do the job, but you'll have so little suspension travel, if you live near bumpy roads you'll always hit the bumpstops for sure..

I dont know if the bilsteins have this issue, maybe someone can let us know. Im going to run this set up for now, because it rides so much better than before, but I might end up just buying some cosworth Gaz Golds for the front, like I have in the rear.

The fact remains, to do a decent suspension, you'll need to sell a kidney.

I have the MC2 Bilstein coilovers upfront and so far I haven't hit the bump stops with 350lb springs and I live in MI with ultra terrible roads.

I have a friend that has dropped over 15k (his claim, never verified what he did) on his suspension for his RX8. His car slays in autocross. Feels worth it when i got a ride in it. probably not the most you could spend either.

[kiwimanz]

Thanks guys for the feed back. Given I'm setting it up for road racing, I think the Billsteins are a good option, thankfully I have two kidneys neither are worth much any more . I had them on my 71 Capri racing car. They were an insert style that I converted to 2.5" ID coil overs.

I've been assembling parts...thank you ebay! It's nuts what our little Asian buddies produce. Some of the stuff is actually not too bad.
Will be using Achflash dash http://www.arcflashllc.com/ with AEM Engine management.
Any way blah blah blah...it's all talk unit the spark start flying.
More to follow
Linz

[kiwimanz]

So I've been amassing parts. I travel a bit for work so ebay etc get a bit of a hammering, but it's like Xmas when I get home lol.

Has anyone have specs for Diamond Pistons for a Folvo build? I called Diamond and they seemed nice guys, but needed a job number of specs to build a new set of pistons. If I can't get that info, then I need to do a full blown measure up.

I guess I could order a set of Lima pistons, then rent the valve pocket gizmo from Yoshifab.
Sorry trying to get some more info on the build.
Also anyone know if a Ford 7.5" Traclok diff will fit in the XR's rear end?

Cheers
Linz

[MarkM]

These aren't Diamond, but Stinger Performance can order CP pistons designed for the Volvo head swap. You'll need to talk to Stinger before ordering. http://www.stinger-performance.com/suspensionparts.html

[kiwimanz]

Hey Mark,
Thank you for the link!
Will definitely give them a call tomorrow, much appreciated
Cheers
Linz

[dunhamr1]

Also anyone know if a Ford 7.5" Traclok diff will fit in the XR's rear end?

Cheers
Linz

I'm not sure about the tracklock, but mc2racing sells a both the Eaton and True Trac LSDs for the 7.5" ford: http://www.mc2racing.com/products/xr4ti ... index.html

there are also some who have converted to Supra diff's which isn't quite a drop in swap but seems to be a bit of a tougher setup. JVL sells the diff mounting flanges.

Cheers

[timxr8]

If you have a couple hours to spare, call John Vanlandingham (JVAB). He's done a lot of R&D into the 2 things you are talking about: Folvo and suspension. He's one of the few non-high end racing guys who does Bilstein work. He makes some great parts. He knows the guys at Yoshi and has nothing but good things to say about them if you go that route for "fly cutting" your pistons. John also had a bunch of cam blanks made for the Volvo head.

Also, get with PyroPete for some Folvo specific pieces like cam sprocket adapters to fit the stock 2.3 sprockets on the volvo cams and the distributor plug.

The Ford 7.5" in the US is different from the Sierra/Euro Ford 7.5". Funny enough, the 7.5" 26 spline GM carrier is what works and that is what MC2 sells. Great products for the money if you can't get JVAB's Supra diff kit...biased of course since I have one.

Lots of stuff out there to help you out.

[kiwimanz]

Thanks guys....huge help!!!!
Stinger has the specs for CP piston using stock Volvo cams on the 2.3. So that's cool....$650 seems reasonable for pistons that are pocketed for valve clearance.

The 7.5 LSD from MC2 is a bloody good deal for sure. I'm not keen on the Supra conversion.... I know the XR4's rear end signs off at 400ft/lbs, so it should be fine. It's a road race / RS500 road race / street conversion.

I'm new to turbo's, are stainless valves for low boost numbers on a turbo application?
less than 10psi boost. (I don't want to run $8 / gal race fuel)
Will post beginning pics
Cheers
Linz

[thesameguy]

Maybe a dumb question:

Why go to the trouble of putting a 16v head on a Lima, when you can just put a full Volvo red block (8v or 16v) in front of a T5?

[kiwimanz]

I like the lima's durability.... plus keeping it mostly ford.
But the challenge of it too I guess. I nuts but hey that's what building projects are all about.
Linz

[thesameguy]

Sounds fair enough. It's just that given the similarities (relationship?) between the red block and the Lima, they seem mostly interchangeable to me.

[John V]

I like the lima's durability.... plus keeping it mostly ford.
But the challenge of it too I guess. I nuts but hey that's what building projects are all about.
Linz

Hi, I'm the JVAB guy that guys mentioned earlier..Rarely pop in here...too much poncy bling type stuff these days.
I have been doing HUNDREDS of Volvo piston and rods sets in the last 15 years (Just happen to be a CP dealer, too) and I've built quite a number of both Limas and Redblocks.....Not building as many motors as previously but since say 2000 I've builts 5-6 YB Cosworths, 2-3 Subie EJ20 rally motors, 3 Mitsubishi 4G63s, 3-4 of my old main area of work, the German V4, a couiple of V6s, and 8-10 Lima, and 8-9 Volvo either B21, B23, B230 or B230 16v, all but 1 turbo. Slowing down..(I'm getting old)

I have to order some steel for the suspension I make so can't type long but briefly:

The Redblock volvos are good engines as a basis of a project BUT in truth both versions, B21/B23 and B230 and the Lima all share some sort of limitations.
ALL: blocks and cranks are fine, B21/B23 has a huge fat forged steel crankshaft (bigger in every way than a small block Chevy crank except rod journal width) BUT there's no real problem with either Lima of B230s cast iron cranks so that cancels out.
Lima block is undoubtedly stronger in the mainline, more meat.. BUT so what, Redblocks are fine into the mid 600hp range. so that cancels out..
Redblocks block deck height is roughly 18mm taller, and they have the same 80mm stroke so they have much longer rods than Lima and THAT is a good thing..Lima rod c-c is 132mm , Old B21/B23 is 145, and B230/B234 is 152mm c-c.

Here's where it gets interesting: piston compression height..B21 grew out of B20 which grew out of B18--so they all have a piston compression height of about 46mm...a real tall --and very heavy piston results. Then B23 grew out of B21: bore went from 88.9mm (aka 3.50") in the B20 to 92mm in B21 and to 96mm in B23/B230
In mid 80s in the B230 they made the rods longer and the pistons shorter to compensate--lighter pistons..For a B23T piston weight was around 880g, in B230 around 650g....it was now about the same as Lima comp hgt, 39,7mm vs about 40mm..
This was what most motors worldwide were in the late 60s and early 70s...so Volvo, being veeeeeeeery conservative designers were only 15 or so years behind everybody else.

So its mainly in the rod and piston combo that the engines differ mainly...Both heads have about the same valve sizes, intake port on 8v Volvo is much better, exhaust is worse. Valve train much nicer in Volvo: simple 35mm buckets, vs veery very picky geometry with those slipper followers the Germans liked (talk to any Pinto experts for an earful about the slipper followers)(Or Datsun L series guys--I did enough of those fawkers way back)

I say in BOTH motors to have a fun motor we want to reduce piston reciprocating weight as much as possible while retaining enough room for a nice stable ring pack so for Redblocks ALL my rods for both are 160mm c-c and the pistons come out at approx 340g and 39,7mm comp hgt (for a B23 or B230), a DRASTIC weight reduction--and a corresponding huge increase in the response of the motor. In the Lima I like about 139mm c-c so the piston is about 32mm and its about 300g lighter..
And I just so happen to have 139mm rods in stock....

Also both motors have rather nasty cast iron flywheels for which there are EXTREMELY limited choice of pressure plates that are really uprated...The common suppliers just go to more and more aggressive disc material. Ford is the lightest but with its wonky "2 bolts in three groups" bolt circle there is NOTHING alternate. Volvo has either a 215mm pressure plate on a nasty flat iron thing or a really horrible 32lb flywheel with a 228mm (same as Lima turbo) iron beast...
And, naturally I make nice 13-14lb steel flywheels for Volvos and I did a run of steel ones for Fords using the same aftermarket 228mm VW Type 4 (bus) pressure plate on both.

So since you really have to do the same things for either Ford or Volvo, there no real advantage to shoving a Volvo Redblock into a Ford.

Gearbox: in both the ideal box is a Borg Warner T5 with the ratios Ford used in both the earliest V8 boxes, the YB Cosworth 2wd and their aftermarket "Z-spec" box which you regonize by the 2.95"1 first gear ratio.. Don't know if you can find those on the North Island or the Soutjh Island but they're pretty common over on the "West" Island in both Fords and Holdens...

Now camshafts. A major problem with turbo conversions using B234 16v head is a) the exhaust flow is like 90% or so of intake flow, and for optimum cylinder filling I understand it should be in the mid 70% range, but that's easy cure; a bigger intake valve in the 37-38mm range (means changing valve seats but that's not rough) but a bigger problem is the n.a. cams are lame wheezy n.a. cams and typical peak torque with those cams is way up at 4600-4800 rpm...And peak power is around 5000.. Not what we want in a turbo motor...or for that matter in a fun n.a. motor either..they're just too lazy.
Fortunately there are nice steel billet cam cores available:


Done with full circle lobes so ANY profile can be done...
I made them. World exclusive.. woot!

You could think "But what profile? What large bore turbo motor with 35mm buckets could we find to copy a known good profile from?" Well if you chose a well know Ford that Ford made that was turbo, large bore and 16v and miraculously had 35mm buckets, you'r be on the right track... You could have your Volvo 16v cams reground to YBB or YBG spec..We did one this spring, although it was mail order and I've yet to hear back from the guy...no idea if the car is done, but it makes lots of sense to think that way...

Jeezuz, Its too long, gotta order steel!