Gay conservatives rebut media-Indiana religious freedom law

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milehighXR
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Re: Gay conservatives rebut media-Indiana religious freedom

Post by milehighXR » Wed Apr 08, 2015 7:23 pm

DAReese wrote:
You're able to create the Straight Boy College Fund right now, it just won't be tax deductible to give to it.
But donations to the UNCF are tax duductible, it states so at the very bottom of their home page. So why shouldn't my charity be tax deductible?
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DAReese
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Re: Gay conservatives rebut media-Indiana religious freedom

Post by DAReese » Wed Apr 08, 2015 8:52 pm

John Brennan wrote:
Well, what goes around comes around, because 150 years later, it seems you can now once again own another person and make them your slave, forcing them to work for you against their wishes. Congratulations.
It is far from slavery. Your boss making you do something you don't want to do isn't slavery, is it? They can always quit. When you're a slave, you can't quit. To compare this to slavery is an insult to all of the people who were enslaved. I'm pretty sure that my rights as the hypothetical gay couple wanting a pizza caterer for my wedding would not also give me the permission to beat, rape, kill or sell the caterer.[/quote]

"Arlene" wanted to quit. She never wanted to be hired. She had the choice of being hired, or losing her business.

Slavery.[/quote]
Really John? If you can't quit your job because you have bills to pay, you are in the same category as the person who couldn't quit because if they tried to they could be killed or sold? Just like the person who HAS to wear the most recent style is a slave to fashion. All the same, right?
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DAReese
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Re: Gay conservatives rebut media-Indiana religious freedom

Post by DAReese » Wed Apr 08, 2015 9:06 pm

milehighXR wrote:
DAReese wrote:
You're able to create the Straight Boy College Fund right now, it just won't be tax deductible to give to it.
But donations to the UNCF are tax duductible, it states so at the very bottom of their home page. So why shouldn't my charity be tax deductible?
Well the UNCF is not for blacks only. It is for scholarships primarily to students of Historically Black Colleges. There is nothing keeping a white person from going to an HBC and applying for a scholarship. If your SBCF was just for straight white males, then you'd have a problem.
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Re: Gay conservatives rebut media-Indiana religious freedom

Post by John Brennan » Thu Apr 09, 2015 9:11 am

DAReese wrote:
John Brennan wrote:
Well, what goes around comes around, because 150 years later, it seems you can now once again own another person and make them your slave, forcing them to work for you against their wishes. Congratulations.
It is far from slavery. Your boss making you do something you don't want to do isn't slavery, is it? They can always quit. When you're a slave, you can't quit. To compare this to slavery is an insult to all of the people who were enslaved. I'm pretty sure that my rights as the hypothetical gay couple wanting a pizza caterer for my wedding would not also give me the permission to beat, rape, kill or sell the caterer.
"Arlene" wanted to quit. She never wanted to be hired. She had the choice of being hired, or losing her business.

Slavery.[/quote]
Really John? If you can't quit your job because you have bills to pay, you are in the same category as the person who couldn't quit because if they tried to they could be killed or sold? Just like the person who HAS to wear the most recent style is a slave to fashion. All the same, right?[/quote]

Perhaps you should ask her how it feels to be forced out of business by a bunch of bullying punks. Slavery comes in many forms. But, that would cause some facts and light to be shed on the issue, so we can't have that.
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Re: Gay conservatives rebut media-Indiana religious freedom

Post by DAReese » Thu Apr 09, 2015 5:48 pm

I don't know Arlene and I applaud her for being willing to lose her business for her beliefs, but when you open a business you can't discriminate against protected groups. If the group that put her out of business said anything untruthful, she can sue them.
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Re: Gay conservatives rebut media-Indiana religious freedom

Post by John Brennan » Thu Apr 09, 2015 6:03 pm

One last time: she has never discriminated against anyone, or any group. She did not wish to participate in an event.
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Re: Gay conservatives rebut media-Indiana religious freedom

Post by DAReese » Fri Apr 10, 2015 10:09 am

In XS 7 wrote:Ok David, and what about the rights of the religious people? I guess they have the right to believe in whatever they want. Or not?, I think serving in a pizza store/shop is public business, a wedding is a private event, serving in a public business is different than serving in a private event, in a private event you are being hire to work for that person/s only not to everybody, is like if you were hired by a factory, if a factory offers me a job I have the right to accept it or refuse it.
:cheers
You might be on to something with this train of thought. Although it is a private event, the caterer holds out being in business to the public, and presumably anyone can hire them to cater unless the business owner wants to discriminate against them. You bring up a fine distinction, and often the difference in being legal or illegal is a fine distinction.

The issue here is the rights of the person providing the service vs. the rights of the person wanting the service. You'd have to favor the person wanting the service because they are the ones with the less power in a contractual situation. The person who didn't write the contract gets the benefits of doubt when issues are ambiguous.
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Re: Gay conservatives rebut media-Indiana religious freedom

Post by DAReese » Fri Apr 10, 2015 10:13 am

John Brennan wrote:One last time: she has never discriminated against anyone, or any group. She did not wish to participate in an event.
And by doing so, she discriminated against a protected group. The law is there to protect the minority. The protected group is protected at the expense of an individual in a conflicting situation. Otherwise, the protected group has no protection.

Don't like it, don't be in business.Then you don't have to worry about losing your rights. Having a business is not a right, you have to follow the rules if you want to have one, even if you don't agree.
David Reese

88 XR4Ti - mono white T5, someday to be bi wing
89 Scorpio - waiting on some parts before it hits the road again
88 XR4Ti - mono red C3, parts car
used to own 86 dark blue traded in on a min van, what was I thinking?

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