Apostrophe Society Shuts Down...

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Re: Apostrophe Society Shuts Down...

Post by thesameguy » Fri Dec 13, 2019 11:16 am

Typing is physical effort! Ed's point is spot on - it's "textguage" that changed everything, and the reason that happened is because typing u is faster than typing you. Especially back in the feature phone days, "you" could have been eight keystrokes whereas "u" is just two. I think people understood that, and the forgiveness extended in that situation was just never retracted, now people type "u" on their smartphone, saving just two keystrokes.

I can't remember a time when I've been confused by textguage … not saying it didn't happen, but I don't recall ever wondering what was going on. Personally, I'm more confused by modern slang... sometimes it takes me a bit to catch up. :)

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Re: Apostrophe Society Shuts Down...

Post by Ed Lijewski » Fri Dec 13, 2019 11:41 am

Given the Textguage trend, future and even lazy current students will experience 'enorm' angst if reading Shakespeare or Chaucher or Dante. Or Wordsworth, Keats, Yeats, Eliot..., More likely is they will avoid those without blinking. But will hie to stand in line to enrol in university seminars on the depth and breadth of metaphors in JayZ's raps.

The loss will be YUGE.

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Re: Apostrophe Society Shuts Down...

Post by thesameguy » Fri Dec 13, 2019 1:18 pm

That has literally been said about everything at one point or another.

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Re: Apostrophe Society Shuts Down...

Post by Ed Lijewski » Fri Dec 13, 2019 1:41 pm

"As gifted a poet as Walt Whitman".

B.S. University class times shouldn't be squandered on crap.

https://www.chicagotribune.com/entertai ... story.html

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milehighXR
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Re: Apostrophe Society Shuts Down...

Post by milehighXR » Fri Dec 20, 2019 7:21 pm

thesameguy wrote:
Wed Dec 11, 2019 12:34 pm
I don't think that's what I'm talking about. I'm talking about an organic process of something changing and then the larger body agreeing the new form is better. Not every step a society takes is engineered - probably most are not. Especially when it comes to language, there is no sanctioning body to approve or deny adjustments. When I was a kid, Oxford commas were de facto and non-plural possessives ending in S ended in apostrophe, but that's largely out the window today. No ref stood up and made that call. It happened because "we" decided we didn't need it.

If something is needed to convey meaning it should be retained. If something exists to take up space and adds no additional value, why bother? The argument "that's how it's always been" seems like an argument for walking and libraries. I'll take a car and the internet every single day.

Back in the '80s I anticipated that the internet would bring along with it a fun* side effect of engaging people in the written word. I wasn't wrong, but I wasn't right in the way I expected to be. The internet has accelerated evolution rather than decelerating it. In retrospect, of course it did - now there are millions or billions of eyes on the problem of "how do we communicate more efficiently" … the loss of an unneeded device seems exactly in line with a possible solution.


* On the subject of useless grammar rules, I was taught never to use "fun" as an adjective as the word is actually a noun. Who knows that? Who cares?
John Brennan wrote:
Thu Dec 12, 2019 2:38 pm
I agree with most of what you're saying-- nevertheless, I still see ignorance and apathy as the main drivers of these changes. I would love to see more consciously-driven change.
Evolution is great. However, for me it's that I forgot all these damned rules as soon as I got out of high school because, with the exception of occasional e-mail at work, and internet forums, I have no use for any of it. As it is I have no clue what they're teaching my kids in that regard these days. I do know that my kids will probably end up with a chip, or using fingerprints or some such for signatures, as they spent a sum total of 2 weeks on cursive in 3rd grade. They can't even hardly read anything written in cursive, let alone write legibly :roll: I remember back in the late eighties when my teachers started demanding my essays be typed I revolted hugely simply because I could write it in cursive way fasterer, than I can type. My handwriting ain't that neat anymore, as I am way out of practice, no need to write when everything is e-mail text, or a phone call.

I personally hate Shakespeare. Reading a play is just nonsense to me. I'm not an actor damnit, I'm a machinist :lol: But I can at least recognize that he was an influential playwright, doesn't mean I gotta read his works, or even enjoy reading them.
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Re: Apostrophe Society Shuts Down...

Post by andyofcolumbusmerkur » Sat Dec 21, 2019 2:27 pm

[/quote]

Evolution is great. However, for me it's that I forgot all these damned rules as soon as I got out of high school because, with the exception of occasional e-mail at work, and internet forums, I have no use for any of it. As it is I have no clue what they're teaching my kids in that regard these days. I do know that my kids will probably end up with a chip, or using fingerprints or some such for signatures, as they spent a sum total of 2 weeks on cursive in 3rd grade. They can't even hardly read anything written in cursive, let alone write legibly :roll: I remember back in the late eighties when my teachers started demanding my essays be typed I revolted hugely simply because I could write it in cursive way fasterer, than I can type. My handwriting ain't that neat anymore, as I am way out of practice, no need to write when everything is e-mail text, or a phone call.

I personally hate Shakespeare. Reading a play is just nonsense to me. I'm not an actor damnit, I'm a machinist :lol: But I can at least recognize that he was an influential playwright, doesn't mean I gotta read his works, or even enjoy reading them.
[/quote]

They took cursive writing out of school (I learned this on the fake news) and now the kids can't sign their names on things. When I drive around I see kids walking home from school and it's like 2:16 PM or something. Maybe they should stay there a little longer and learn some basic stuff.
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milehighXR
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Re: Apostrophe Society Shuts Down...

Post by milehighXR » Sat Dec 21, 2019 2:52 pm

I had 6-7 classes a day in middle school from 7am to 2:30pm. I had the same class everyday.

Now my youngest, 8th grade, has 5-6 classes per day and sees the teacher every other day. Science is 1 quarter, then social studies for a quarter, then repeat process again? Has certain things like home ec(not called that anymore but whatever) for 2 quarters, then something else. Math and english are all year, but like I said every other day.

My oldest, has 4-5 classes per day, and has a similar schedule, and he has one free period each semester. I assume(oh boy there we go) this is done this way in these 2 schools to get the kids ready for college life. I never went to college, but as I understand it you see the prof everyday. I know if I had had a schedule like this when I was their age my grades woulda been far worse.

Things definitely ain't like they usedtacould be...
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Re: Apostrophe Society Shuts Down...

Post by thesameguy » Mon Dec 23, 2019 3:40 pm

That sounds roughly like my middle school, which was the mid/late '80s. We had a few classes (which I think were history, English, and PE) every day, but then other classes on a schedule two to three times per week. That mostly translated to high school (some classes every day, others a couple times per week) and then to what little college I attended. There was no class that was every day. Some classes were taught by the actual person I paid, others were mostly conducted by TAs, etc.

I think it's important to remember that "school" is a fixed time in a person's life, and every year there is more to cram into it. My dad didn't have to learn about nuclear power plants or the Genome project, or Catcher in the Rye. He went to school with Noam Chomsky! That's core curriculum these days. My 13 year old nephew is taking a second year of robotics so he can apply what he's learned in structured programming classes. You don't get to keep packing more information in, eventually some stuff has to go, and someone has to make the call as to what makes successful Americans and what doesn't. I'm glad it's not me - I would have shitcanned cursive in the '80s instead of waiting another twenty years. I would have made typing and DOS (or some CLI, I'm flexible) a requirement. I wish someone had taken the time to teach me structured programming in middle school! I COULD HAVE BEEN MARK ZUCKERBERG. But cooler. I still would have had an XR4Ti.

Some things are important to learn, and some things desirable, and they're not always the same thing. I would make this argument, though: You can be a great writer while knowing very little about the language, but you can't be a great mathematician, programmer, or engineer without a ton of formal education. So, as much as it pains me to say, if I had to choose between prioritizing STEM or prioritizing language, I'd say learn to write on your own time, dammit. I did*. :P


* Yeah, I had English teachers, but aside from Mrs. Kenny and Mrs. Gibson, none of them were memorable. In fact, my college English teacher was a big part of why I dropped out. USELESS.

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Re: Apostrophe Society Shuts Down...

Post by Ed Lijewski » Sun Jan 12, 2020 8:21 am

Descartes: "Cogito Ergo Sum"
Lijewski: "Sum Ergo Drive-O. Mucho!

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Re: Apostrophe Society Shuts Down...

Post by Ed Lijewski » Sun Jan 12, 2020 8:43 am

Gnome Chomsky:

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Gnome Chomsky.
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(Sameguy: did you also read Howard Zinn?)

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Re: Apostrophe Society Shuts Down...

Post by Ed Lijewski » Mon Jan 20, 2020 9:03 am

Commas Save Lives.
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Descartes: "Cogito Ergo Sum"
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