A4LD... What's out of adjustment?

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john keefe
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A4LD... What's out of adjustment?

Post by john keefe » Tue May 15, 2018 10:51 pm

OK, so I've been living with a slipping 2-3 gear in the Scorpio. Absolutely NO problems when I shift manually. I can wind it up to 3500-4000 easy.

Problems show when I've got it in 3rd (and sometimes in OD), when it feels like its slipping in 2. Doesn't matter how hot it is. So, I've got a new modulator, checked the kick-down and other linkages, etc., etc., and have a 5.0L police trans cooler. By-passed the trans cooling in the radiator.

I figure, if the bands were going, or something else, it would show the same symptoms regardless if left in AUTO, or shifted Manually. So... what do you think is out of adjustment? Or, solenoids going bad?

TIA

John

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Re: A4LD... What's out of adjustment?

Post by Ed Lijewski » Wed May 16, 2018 6:28 am

"I'm starting another thread, speaking about flushing the A4LD & using the Lubeguard... If you see it, any comment would be appreciated."

I understand the arguments against trans flushes.

I'd do it, going with a known shop that uses BG equipment. Lubegard effects might not be felt immediately--they weren't in my case but I'm very pleased with the end result -so some patience and soft driving afterward could be your friend.

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Re: A4LD... What's out of adjustment?

Post by john keefe » Wed May 16, 2018 12:18 pm

Thanks Ed,
I'll definitely go with a "soft" trans flush of just two buckets, and using the trans pump to send out the old... when it turns clear, then I'll add the Lubegard.

Just seems like all the symptoms are mechanically related (linkage, modulator, etc.). If there was a quick adjustment to be made before doing the flush, I'd give it a shot.

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Re: A4LD... What's out of adjustment?

Post by brokencase » Wed May 16, 2018 10:33 pm

You could do the band adjustment (or have a competent shop do it)

The procedure for adjusting the bands is as follows:
Loosen the lock nut on the adjusting stud while holding the stud in place. Set your torque wrench to 10 ft.-lbs. (120 in.-lbs.), and tighten the stud. When it reaches 10 ft.-lbs. stop and then back out the stud 2 turns. Hold the stud in place, and tighten lock the nut to 35-45 ft.-lbs.

You must take care not to loosen the stud while you break the lock nut free. After tightening with the torque wrench do not back out more than two turns. If you loosen the studs too much the band can pop off the stud and then you are in trouble...

Use a 1/4" drive torque wrench.

As the band wears the solenoid piston stroke must increase to grab the drum. If you tighten the band to where it should be, the solenoid won't have to move as much. If you shift manually you might be getting a little more pressure because you shift point is higher? Just a Theory, but I see no negative side to making sure the bands are adjusted right

Search the web for more details...But if you are to nervous to play with the adjustment have a shop do it.

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Re: A4LD... What's out of adjustment?

Post by john keefe » Fri May 18, 2018 3:45 am

Thanks, brokencase. Already adjusted the bands a while back. Might try that again, as I found a few debates on other forums about how much to back off the stud. Can't recall if I set it to 120in-lb, and then backed off 2, or 3.

Otherwise, I've done everything else, including new filter, new modulator, new front-mount oil cooler, adjusted linkages & kick-down (works fine), new front seal, re-worked drain back hole(s) in the pump, etc..

How about the governor? Maybe the solenoids? Would those give the same symptoms if going bad?

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Re: A4LD... What's out of adjustment?

Post by brokencase » Sat May 19, 2018 3:02 pm

How many miles on the trans are we talking here?

Slippage means the band can't be grabbing as hard as we would like. Either the friction material is worn on the band and adjusting the band could help, or the band is so worn that this will not help.

The other alternative is pressure at the solenoid (which pulls the bad around the drum) is not sufficient. There could be many reasons for this.
If your are very certain that manually shifting there is no slippage, but with automatic shifting there is slippage then it points to something wrong in the valve body.

The ATSG A4LD manual troubleshooting section does not have a specific "slipping in 2-3" case, however I have pasted the page below...

Low hanging fruit might be to drop the pan and just try tightening the valve body bolts. Known issue of leakage around valve body gasket.
If you have to drop the valve body then consider this...
http://www.explorerforum.com/forums/ind ... ry.137972/

Image

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Re: A4LD... What's out of adjustment?

Post by Ed Lijewski » Sat May 19, 2018 5:01 pm

Descartes: "Cogito Ergo Sum"
Lijewski: "Sum Ergo Drive-O. Mucho!

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Re: A4LD... What's out of adjustment?

Post by brokencase » Sat May 19, 2018 6:18 pm


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Re: A4LD... What's out of adjustment?

Post by john keefe » Wed May 23, 2018 2:38 am

Thanks brokencase. I don't think I have that page in my manual...? Heckuva lot easier to work on the valve body than tearing down the whole A4. Car has only 115K miles on it, though I went through the transmission about 104 miles a while back. I didn't get to drive it much, its only when I got it back from my son that I was aware there was a shift problem.

Nice link to Explorer forums.

$2365 is more than the car is worth. :( Trying to figure out the difference between rebuild kits also shown.

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Re: A4LD... What's out of adjustment?

Post by Bob Weir » Thu May 24, 2018 10:37 pm

An idea - for what it's worth.
Had two Scorpio a4lds. Told my tranny guy, who specializes in Explorers, make me a good one. Rebuilt, installed, but didn't shift quite right. He swapped modulators. For years, drove it around Philadelphia and 60 mi interstate home weekly. Jeff Herson drove it to Chicago.
I asked the tranny guy "why"? "Stuff happens..." Maybe a different modulator will work better.

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Re: A4LD... What's out of adjustment?

Post by john keefe » Fri May 25, 2018 2:36 am

Thanks Bob. I think it might be worth a shot while doing the oil change. I don't remember if this one in the car is a Motorcraft, an Autozone special.

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Re: A4LD... What's out of adjustment?

Post by Ed Lijewski » Fri May 25, 2018 7:57 am

(Most) Modulators are adjustable.

Get the NAPA calibrated unit if possible. I found it was spot on. Plus it comes with the neat knob for any later adjusting rather than having to insert a small hex wrench.

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Re: A4LD... What's out of adjustment?

Post by milehighXR » Fri May 25, 2018 8:22 pm

Definitely gotta have the right modulator. As far as the VB(valve body) goes, rebuilding that can get tricky. I've been through one or 3 VBs and sometimes they're so stuck, you can't even get them apart even after soaking in carb cleaner for a week. I do have a few VBs on the shelf that were gonna got to scrap, I'll sell 'em cheap if you wanna have a go at rebuilding one.

I also have an A4LD that I rebuilt myself, but I think I cut a seal as it never had OD after rebuild, and eventually reverse went.At the time I yanked it from the car, I scrapped the car as I was tired of constantly working on every other car every week just to have something to drive to work. I was gonna stick it in my XR as it still has a C3(and that gets buzzy at 75+ mph, and gets forced into open loop operation at that point to, or pretty close to it). I'll sell the trans along with all of my spare A4LD parts(including the magical tailshaft that allows for full 4x4 4.0L guts to be swapped into it(has 4 pinion TC steel planet in OD drum instead of stock 3 pinion AL, and opposed to 6 pinion steel found in 4.0L 4x4 V-6) while staying Scorpio RWD goodness. This trans has all the other goodies too, including new TC, new low reverse band, carbon fiber od and intermediate bands, huge ZC servos, rebuilt VB with all the updates, converted to the late low reverse sprag(new race installed into case), and a minimum of 1-2 extra frictions in each drum. And it's all stuffed into an Exploder 4x4 4.0L V-6 case with 750nM cast into it(I assume this means max torque rating for that application, but I dunno). It does have the correct 2.9L bell on it, Scorpio VB, and the proper Scorpio 3-4 upshift solenoid on the side too. Shippings gonna be hell though.... The only reason I am not dissecting it and sticking in my XR is that the XR has sat for 5yrs now, and when I pulled the trans oil out of it, it had absorbed so much water that it looked like strawberry milkshake. I don't anticipate driving my XR so far that I can justify not changing trans oil every 6 mos. Something I refuse to do... So I'm gonna stick a T-9 in it, if I can find one that is...
Johnny


1 86 XR aka Naomi- my first love, now project car
1 14 black Fiesta SE aka Fiona- my new DD

DCLXVI

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Re: A4LD... What's out of adjustment?

Post by john keefe » Sat May 26, 2018 9:22 pm

Ed... most the NAPA's around here have gone out of business. Outrageous lease costs for the most part, and kinda' saturation with the national parts stores. NAPA always had good stuff, US made or even NOS in some cases. I'll see if something like that is on eBay.

MilehighXR (Johnny)... was looking at, and thinking about your A4LD for some time. Would love to have it, especially if I knew more about R&R any auto trans. But, its kinda' an allout solution to what might be a simple issue with mine, if that makes sense.

You're right, though. I think the shipping to CA would be prohibitive. Not sure if it wouldn't be cheaper to drive out to the old stomping grounds in CO just to pick it up. JOC, still asking $200 for it? Do you know the weight?

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Re: A4LD... What's out of adjustment?

Post by Bob Weir » Sun May 27, 2018 8:34 am

Larry Davis is one of the most knowledgable people regarding the Scorpio A4LD.

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