LF: Parts vendors in here please.

[John Brennan]

FWIW-- and it ain't much-- in my experience, if you stiffen up the bushings and such, their ability to attenuate vibrations and flex is reduced, such that you may then notice them more elsewhere. Anytime you change something here, you affect something else over there. The starter Y brace, for example, ties right to the motor mount.
Increase the stiffness of the motor mount, and you might increase the flexion/motion/vibration at the engine/transmission joining surfaces that the brace was designed to deal with. I mean, why is it there? What does it do?
Again, it's probably in the realm of "steel-rod-bends-under-the-weight-of-a-fly," but who knows? Maybe not.

[Ed Lijewski]

Actually Ed, I seriously doubt you'd be able to tell whether the brace was installed or not. Now if you have poly engine mounts,
you still wouldn't be able to tell, but the NVH will increase because of the mounts, not because the braces are missing...

This is why I didn't mind ditching those braces. ChuckW mounts, poly trans mount. No bit of rubber in the suspension besides the tires. I don't think I'd notice the change with the brace in place.

You're both free to go braceless. You drive your cars (when they run...) on racetracks/autocross courses. Many if not most XR owners drive exclusively uh normally. We're free to [em]brace...

Poly mounts and Chuck Mounts are for the former. From their introduction CMs struck me as insane for use by most other than tire smokers with any choice of durometer, an assessment pretty fully borne out over time by the many sets of CMs removed and offered for sale; poly mounts are right behind CMs in this regard.

If each of you drove (mostly normally) ~15/20K miles per year every year it'd possible your postulates might prove correct and applicable to all for beyond racing use . You don't. And that should be acknowledged beforehand rather having it pointed out by others (me, e.g.).

Cf this thread and particularly my last comment response on it:

http://forum.merkurclub.com/forum/viewt ... 30&t=33049

I have two XRs. My other is deliciously, silky, creamy, smooth running throughout rpms. (John Brennan rode in it from Carlisle to Harrisburg airport and may recall.) All stock, if renewed, suspension bits (no poly). It's a pleasure to drive and cruise in. I note this as it's an excellent baseline against which assessing NVH in another XR is easily made (without instrumentation).

YMMV

[hEaT]

Actually Ed, I seriously doubt you'd be able to tell whether the brace was installed or not. Now if you have poly engine mounts,
you still wouldn't be able to tell, but the NVH will increase because of the mounts, not because the braces are missing...

This is why I didn't mind ditching those braces. ChuckW mounts, poly trans mount. No bit of rubber in the suspension besides the tires. I don't think I'd notice the change with the brace in place.

You're both free to go braceless. You drive your cars (when they run...) on racetracks/autocross courses. Many if not most XR owners drive exclusively uh normally. We're free to [em]brace...

Poly mounts and Chuck Mounts are for the former. From their introduction CMs struck me as insane for use by most other than tire smokers with any choice of durometer, an assessment pretty fully borne out over time by the many sets of CMs removed and offered for sale; poly mounts are right behind CMs in this regard.

If each of you drove (mostly normally) ~15/20K miles per year every year it'd possible your postulates might prove correct and applicable to all for beyond racing use . You don't. And that should be acknowledged beforehand rather having it pointed out by others (me, e.g.).

Cf this thread and particularly my last comment response on it:

http://forum.merkurclub.com/forum/viewt ... =30&t=3304.

I have two XRs. My other is deliciously, silky, creamy, smooth running throughout rpms. (John Brennan rode in it from Carlisle to Harrisburg airport and may recall.) All stock, if renewed, suspension bits (no poly). It's a pleasure to drive and cruise in. I note this as it's an excellent baseline against which assessing NVH in another XR is easily made (without instrumentation).

YMMV

No need to get so defensive and make passive aggressive comments regarding reliability and use. Figured my 11 years on the forum people know that I don't daily the car. ChuckW mounts should be called vibrate parts off your car mounts. Agreed, no one should run these on a street car. For my car that I drive regularly, I run OEM mounts for that same reason.

My comments (reiterated a few times) were that with the mods done to my car, that brace likely doesn't provide a noticeable increase in stiffness or decrease in NVH. For others...as you'd say, YMMV. If I had a bone stock car I wouldn't just remove the brace to save weight. That's rather pointless and it isn't in the way of anything. With the stock massive starter, even on a modified car, I would keep it (and I did).

[Ed Lijewski]

Good to know.

Thanks.

YMMV

[John Brennan]

Well, I do recall the ride (and thank you again), and yes, your car ran beautifully and smoothly.
I guess I'm an oddball that runs both Chuck's Mounts (with the NLA softer durometer bushings, mind you) and the braces, too. I accept a bit more "tingle" at and off idle for a motor which sits solidly in place with little or no motion, and bear in mind that replacement mounts were very limited in choice a few years back. Again, I figure that if I'm making something a little stiffer there, I'll keep the pieces which should help mitigate any increased stress or flexion in the same area which that change might introduce.

[hEaT]

Well, I do recall the ride (and thank you again), and yes, your car ran beautifully and smoothly.
I guess I'm an oddball that runs both Chuck's Mounts (with the NLA softer durometer bushings, mind you) and the braces, too. I accept a bit more "tingle" at and off idle for a motor which sits solidly in place with little or no motion, and bear in mind that replacement mounts were very limited in choice a few years back. Again, I figure that if I'm making something a little stiffer there, I'll keep the pieces which should help mitigate any increased stress or flexion in the same area which that change might introduce.

I'd love to give a ride in Ed's car at some point or yours. Curious how these cars felt when they were near showroom new. I've only ridden in modified ones.

[John Brennan]

Mine's not stock, for sure; with the Mounts, shorter springs, different shocks, 16" wheels, some uprated bushings (esp the diff mount), 3" exhaust (trying to keep to the mods which might affect NVH in particular)... quite frankly, when all is said and done, there's no way to turn back the clock... stuff gets old... you're never going to preserve all of the smoothness they had when they were new.

[Rocky's Wrench]

You're both free to go braceless. You drive your cars (when they run...) on racetracks/autocross courses.

If each of you drove (mostly normally) ~15/20K miles per year every year it'd possible your postulates might prove correct and applicable to all for beyond racing use . You don't.

How do know that I don't drive my XRs more than you drive yours?? Have you had someone watching SWMBO and I?? this is starting to get a little creepy Ed... SWMBO put 9K miles on her XR last year, and actually Ed, for the last 6 weeks, I've been driving Jedi Talons(RIP Mike) autocross XR,
60 odd miles a day.

The day we got it home I stuck a battery in it and drove it off the trailer, after it had been sitting in Charlies front yard for 3 and a half years.
Two weeks after dragging it home, we attended the Olympus Rally to scrutineer the rally cars, then that weekend acted as road marshals,
blasting through the woods on a set of 225/45R15 semi-slicks.

You wanna drive a soft, plush, more like your living room recliner car, that's your choice. Its not my choice, I prefer to be "connected"...

[Ed Lijewski]

I appreciate the additional info.

Correction: The hotlink I intended to copy and insert above was truncated in inserting it into my comment, losing the last digit. This is the correct hotlink, on results I felt in the cabin after installing new gel-filled Rapido motor mounts:

http://forum.merkurclub.com/forum/viewt ... 30&t=33049

[anglin]

My favorite quote that I've heard with regard to certain brackets is "Ford is so cheap, that bracket really has to be there for a good reason." I can't shoot holes in that argument.

My favorite quote from a forum post has to be the one where the guy said "First thing I do when I get a new XR is cut the x-brace out from the slam panel." Apparently those things are a big deal.

[DAReese]

Well, I do recall the ride (and thank you again), and yes, your car ran beautifully and smoothly.
I guess I'm an oddball that runs both Chuck's Mounts (with the NLA softer durometer bushings, mind you) and the braces, too. I accept a bit more "tingle" at and off idle for a motor which sits solidly in place with little or no motion, and bear in mind that replacement mounts were very limited in choice a few years back. Again, I figure that if I'm making something a little stiffer there, I'll keep the pieces which should help mitigate any increased stress or flexion in the same area which that change might introduce.

I'd love to give a ride in Ed's car at some point or yours. Curious how these cars felt when they were near showroom new. I've only ridden in modified ones.

With the moon rover tires of the day, the soft rubber bushings and copious amounts of body roll, my new 86 was a totally different ride than my current 88. But I had to replace the bushings every six months or so, so that kind of sucked.

I'm not a huge fan of the low profile tires meeting the many Ohio potholes, I cringe every time I hit one.

But overall, I like the ride of a modified XR better.