Proper Brake feel (and wheel questions)

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oemoilleaks
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Proper Brake feel (and wheel questions)

Post by oemoilleaks » Tue Nov 27, 2018 10:50 pm

I recently got my first XR.

Long story short,I bought the car with a failed brake master cylinder and replaced it last weekend. I bled the system twice all the way around, and when I finally got a chance to drive it for the first time I noticed that the pedal goes half way down before it engages.

I'm new to the Merkur world and I was wondering if this is normal? abnormal? Should I have bled the clutch while I was there? Do I need to try it again because I am clearly the problem?

Also, regarding wheels, I have found so many conflicting sources say what the stock offset is, and what will and won't fit. Is there anything 15x8 people are running? Even with spacers?

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Re: Proper Brake feel (and wheel questions)

Post by merkurdriver » Wed Nov 28, 2018 2:58 am

oemoilleaks wrote:
Tue Nov 27, 2018 10:50 pm
Should I have bled the clutch while I was there?
This would be tough as its not a hydraulic clutch. Just an "old school" manually operated cable.

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Re: Proper Brake feel (and wheel questions)

Post by Ed Lijewski » Wed Nov 28, 2018 8:41 am

Possible inadequate bench bleeding (pre-install) of the master cylinder.

YMMV
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Re: Proper Brake feel (and wheel questions)

Post by John Brennan » Wed Nov 28, 2018 9:07 am

Stock wheel offset is +41mm... but with a 5.5" wheel. Your typical 7" wheel should be about +35mm, give or take a few. An 8" wide wheel will require less. Start with a wheel fitment calculator, such as this one on Tire Rack's site:

https://tires.tirerack.com/tires/Wheel% ... nt%20Guide

A lot depends on tire size as well. As to specific fitment of 15 X 8 wheels, maybe someone will chime in, or ask on the MCA's Facebook page. Also, remember that the lug nut shoulder angle and center bore (60*, and 63.5mm, IIRC; someone correct me if I'm wrong) are specific to the XR. A Tire Rack rep would be able to answer those questions for you as well.
This is my car, and these are my people!
1989 XR4Ti 5-Speed
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2015 Fiesta ST 6-Speed
2015 Edge 3.5 V6 Auto/Paddles

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Re: Proper Brake feel (and wheel questions)

Post by oemoilleaks » Wed Nov 28, 2018 11:48 am

Ed Lijewski wrote:
Wed Nov 28, 2018 8:41 am
Possible inadequate bench bleeding (pre-install) of the master cylinder.

YMMV

Could be but I power bled the system both times. Pressurized from the reservoir and pushed the pedal down (about half way) with a long separator.

When the brakes kick in they kick in well it’s just halfway down the throw range. Is that the normal engagement point?

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Re: Proper Brake feel (and wheel questions)

Post by oemoilleaks » Wed Nov 28, 2018 12:52 pm

merkurdriver wrote:
Wed Nov 28, 2018 2:58 am
oemoilleaks wrote:
Tue Nov 27, 2018 10:50 pm
Should I have bled the clutch while I was there?
This would be tough as its not a hydraulic clutch. Just an "old school" manually operated cable.
You're right that would make it extremely hard. That would also explain the squeal when I release the clutch pedal.. What is that?

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Re: Proper Brake feel (and wheel questions)

Post by John Brennan » Wed Nov 28, 2018 1:21 pm

oemoilleaks wrote:
Wed Nov 28, 2018 12:52 pm
merkurdriver wrote:
Wed Nov 28, 2018 2:58 am
oemoilleaks wrote:
Tue Nov 27, 2018 10:50 pm
Should I have bled the clutch while I was there?
This would be tough as its not a hydraulic clutch. Just an "old school" manually operated cable.
You're right that would make it extremely hard. That would also explain the squeal when I release the clutch pedal.. What is that?
I would suspect a worn throwout bearing, possibly the T9 input shaft bearing.
This is my car, and these are my people!
1989 XR4Ti 5-Speed
2001 BMW Z3 3.0 5-Speed
2015 Fiesta ST 6-Speed
2015 Edge 3.5 V6 Auto/Paddles

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Re: Proper Brake feel (and wheel questions)

Post by DAReese » Wed Nov 28, 2018 6:02 pm

John Brennan wrote:
Wed Nov 28, 2018 1:21 pm
oemoilleaks wrote:
Wed Nov 28, 2018 12:52 pm
merkurdriver wrote:
Wed Nov 28, 2018 2:58 am


This would be tough as its not a hydraulic clutch. Just an "old school" manually operated cable.
You're right that would make it extremely hard. That would also explain the squeal when I release the clutch pedal.. What is that?
I would suspect a worn throwout bearing, possibly the T9 input shaft bearing.
Or belt squeal.
David Reese

88 XR4Ti - mono white T5, someday to be bi wing
89 Scorpio - waiting on some parts before it hits the road again
88 XR4Ti - mono red C3, parts car
used to own 86 dark blue traded in on a min van, what was I thinking?

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Re: Proper Brake feel (and wheel questions)

Post by Ed Lijewski » Wed Nov 28, 2018 6:10 pm

oemoilleaks wrote:
Wed Nov 28, 2018 11:48 am
Ed Lijewski wrote:
Wed Nov 28, 2018 8:41 am
Possible inadequate bench bleeding (pre-install) of the master cylinder.

YMMV

Could be but I power bled the system both times. Pressurized from the reservoir and pushed the pedal down (about half way) with a long separator.

When the brakes kick in they kick in well it’s just halfway down the throw range. Is that the normal engagement point?
Every new in box MC I've seen says to bench bleed it before installing. Power bleeding doesn't eliminate all air in the MC unit.

YMMV
Descartes: "Cogito Ergo Sum"
Lijewski: "Sum Ergo Drive-O. Mucho!

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Re: Proper Brake feel (and wheel questions)

Post by oemoilleaks » Wed Nov 28, 2018 11:28 pm

Ed Lijewski wrote:
Wed Nov 28, 2018 6:10 pm


Every new in box MC I've seen says to bench bleed it before installing. Power bleeding doesn't eliminate all air in the MC unit.

YMMV


Well, yes, I also powerbled the MC before I installed it. I forgot to mention it.

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Re: Proper Brake feel (and wheel questions)

Post by oemoilleaks » Wed Nov 28, 2018 11:29 pm

John Brennan wrote:
Wed Nov 28, 2018 1:21 pm


I would suspect a worn throwout bearing, possibly the T9 input shaft bearing.
T5 swap was already done.. it sounds mechanically linked to pedal... It's like how a door creaks when you open and close it.. same noise in both directions. But IDK what it truly is.

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Re: Proper Brake feel (and wheel questions)

Post by merkurdriver » Thu Nov 29, 2018 4:38 am

oemoilleaks wrote:
Wed Nov 28, 2018 11:29 pm
John Brennan wrote:
Wed Nov 28, 2018 1:21 pm


I would suspect a worn throwout bearing, possibly the T9 input shaft bearing.
T5 swap was already done.. it sounds mechanically linked to pedal... It's like how a door creaks when you open and close it.. same noise in both directions. But IDK what it truly is.
If a T5 swap has been done i would check the linkage at the clutch fork, clutch cable, little dog bone intermediate cable etc.
See how the T5 swap was accomplished by the previous owner. (Might just need some lube on those mechanical moving parts.)

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Re: Proper Brake feel (and wheel questions)

Post by oemoilleaks » Thu Nov 29, 2018 11:51 am

merkurdriver wrote:
Thu Nov 29, 2018 4:38 am

If a T5 swap has been done i would check the linkage at the clutch fork, clutch cable, little dog bone intermediate cable etc.
See how the T5 swap was accomplished by the previous owner. (Might just need some lube on those mechanical moving parts.)
Good thought! I haven't really had a chance to really dive into the car yet since after I replaced the MC and took it for a drive oil started shooting out of the dipstick :beats head

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Re: Proper Brake feel (and wheel questions)

Post by DAReese » Thu Nov 29, 2018 3:45 pm

merkurdriver wrote:
Thu Nov 29, 2018 4:38 am
oemoilleaks wrote:
Wed Nov 28, 2018 11:29 pm
John Brennan wrote:
Wed Nov 28, 2018 1:21 pm


I would suspect a worn throwout bearing, possibly the T9 input shaft bearing.
T5 swap was already done.. it sounds mechanically linked to pedal... It's like how a door creaks when you open and close it.. same noise in both directions. But IDK what it truly is.
If a T5 swap has been done i would check the linkage at the clutch fork, clutch cable, little dog bone intermediate cable etc.
See how the T5 swap was accomplished by the previous owner. (Might just need some lube on those mechanical moving parts.)
Could be coming from the replacement bolt for the dog-bone cable. If that has been done.
David Reese

88 XR4Ti - mono white T5, someday to be bi wing
89 Scorpio - waiting on some parts before it hits the road again
88 XR4Ti - mono red C3, parts car
used to own 86 dark blue traded in on a min van, what was I thinking?

oemoilleaks
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Re: Proper Brake feel (and wheel questions)

Post by oemoilleaks » Thu Nov 29, 2018 4:54 pm

WAIT,

we got off topic a little...

Air in the system is the most likely culprit for the pedal not engaging until about 1/3 of the way down? Once it engages it works really well, but it just seemed like such a far throw before it engages.

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