Saginaw Power Steering Pump Conversion

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Saginaw Power Steering Pump Conversion

Post by DPDISXR4Ti » Mon Feb 04, 2019 12:44 pm

I've mentioned this elsewhere but figured it should stand on it's own. I hate the "C2" pump that Ford used on lots of applications, including our 2.3T. I'm not the only one, and this guy documented how to swap out the C2 pump for a Saginaw pump from a GMAC Safari / Chevy Astro van.

http://www.allfordmustangs.com/forums/2 ... e-fix.html

The details and pics of the swap are all in the link, but just in case it was to go away one day, I just grabbed some of the images to include here for future reference...
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Re: Saginaw Power Steering Pump Conversion

Post by cmouta » Mon Feb 04, 2019 12:54 pm

Thanks for posting! What I've always wondered with these type of swaps is doesn't the steering rack equipment have some sort of pressure spec/requirement and are people matching it or just using whatever as long as it doesn't make noise? I think I've tried to find psi/flow specs of power steering pumps and besides whats in the shop manual to test the OEM XR PS pump, I didn't find much.
Chris
1988 Mono Rosso Red Merkur XR4Ti

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Re: Saginaw Power Steering Pump Conversion

Post by DPDISXR4Ti » Mon Feb 04, 2019 12:59 pm

I suspect this pump delivers a bit higher pressure than spec. Part II of the project would be exploring what different springs might be available to alter the pressure. Or perhaps modifying (shortening) existing springs. These pumps are all over the junkyard in various GM applications in a variety of from factors, so I'll have plenty to choose from.

BTW, seal kits are readily available for this pump on eBay for ~$10. It's just a bit tricky trying to figure out exactly which seal kits is correct. It may not matter for the most part. I know when I re-sealed the Saginaw pump I put into my truck, I had a bunch of o-rings left over.
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Re: Saginaw Power Steering Pump Conversion

Post by my8950 » Mon Feb 04, 2019 1:18 pm

Cool...I remember reading this review a few years ago.
Keep the post updated with your progress if you do it.

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Re: Saginaw Power Steering Pump Conversion

Post by DPDISXR4Ti » Sun Feb 10, 2019 10:41 pm

I grabbed a couple more pics from a Bronco site where someone did the Saginaw swap into a V8. I mostly grabbed these just to show the orientation of the adapter bracket without the pulley in the way....
SaginawSwap-TruckBrckt.jpg
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SaginawSwap-TruckBrckt2.jpg
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Re: Saginaw Power Steering Pump Conversion

Post by DPDISXR4Ti » Sun Feb 10, 2019 10:55 pm

And here's a shot of the pump attached to it's native bracket (Chevy Astro). I had thoughts that perhaps I could save the $30 for the adapter bracket by cutting this one up and fabbing it into an adapter bracket. Short story, it's a no-go.
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SaginawAstro-7.JPG
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Re: Saginaw Power Steering Pump Conversion

Post by DPDISXR4Ti » Mon Feb 11, 2019 11:13 am

Here's a thread on the Explorer forum where someone put the same Saginaw P-series pump w/ remote reservoir in a 4L Explorer. Much of the install is the same, but some is different.

https://www.explorerforum.com/forums/in ... ey.417083/

The one notable difference is that we're not going to find any off-the-shelf high-pressure hose that will go between our steering rack and a Saginaw pump. As best I've been able to find, there's not even an adapter available that would allow use of the stock Merkur XR4Ti line.
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Re: Saginaw Power Steering Pump Conversion

Post by my8950 » Mon Feb 11, 2019 11:46 am

DPDISXR4Ti wrote:
Mon Feb 11, 2019 11:13 am
Here's a thread on the Explorer forum where someone put the same Saginaw P-series pump w/ remote reservoir in a 4L Explorer. Much of the install is the same, but some is different.

https://www.explorerforum.com/forums/in ... ey.417083/

The one notable difference is that we're not going to find any off-the-shelf high-pressure hose that will go between our steering rack and a Saginaw pump. As best I've been able to find, there's not even an adapter available that would allow use of the stock Merkur XR4Ti line.
You could probably have a hose made pretty cheap though at a Parker store or something similar that does hydraulic hoses. :?:

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Re: Saginaw Power Steering Pump Conversion

Post by DPDISXR4Ti » Tue Feb 26, 2019 11:44 am

Just wanted to drop this link in here. It's a truck forum where a guy did a Saginaw pump swap. Not sure if anything will be useful, but it might and I didn't want to risk needing to search all over for it...

http://www.garysgaragemahal.com/#nabble-td7480
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Re: Saginaw Power Steering Pump Conversion

Post by DPDISXR4Ti » Wed Mar 06, 2019 12:06 pm

And here's another thread where some options are discussed about reducing pressure and/or volume, should I find there's too much of either with the Saginaw P-series pump...
https://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum/thr ... ck.953042/

Something else I discovered the other day looking at a pic of Dennis Erhart's engine bay. Using a modern stretch belt, you can add a power steering pump/bracket without any sort of tensioner. This will allow me to use a modified XR4Ti power steering bracket with no alternator above to provide the tension. Here's a pic, although it looks like Dennis is using some other bracket that positions the pump closer to the frame rail...
PowerSteeringStretchBelt.jpg
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Re: Saginaw Power Steering Pump Conversion

Post by my8950 » Wed Mar 06, 2019 12:36 pm

It's hard to see how he has the belt wrapped, is there any contact on the water pump really?

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Re: Saginaw Power Steering Pump Conversion

Post by DPDISXR4Ti » Thu Mar 07, 2019 12:10 pm

my8950 wrote:
Wed Mar 06, 2019 12:36 pm
It's hard to see how he has the belt wrapped, is there any contact on the water pump really?
The power steering pump is being driven SOLELY by the water pump on the inner set of grooves, so there's 180 degrees of contact. You would also have the option of a triangular routing which also includes the crank pulley. I think I'd prefer that, plus with a longer belt there should be a little more stretch and thus a little less precision needed on the length.

Here's the only reference I could find which lists some of the applications that use stretch belts. It looks older - I'm sure there are many more engiens using them now.
http://www.napabeltshose.com/~/media/na ... .pdf?la=en

My rough measurement is that I'd need something around 37" long, just using the water pump as the drive pump. There's several in the 35/36/37" range listed, but all 4-groove. I'm sure that would be fine, but I'd prefer full 5-groove engagement. I need to find a more modern application guide listing of stretch belts.
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Re: Saginaw Power Steering Pump Conversion

Post by Ed Lijewski » Thu Mar 07, 2019 3:55 pm

What about the XR pump is so hateful...to you?
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Re: Saginaw Power Steering Pump Conversion

Post by DPDISXR4Ti » Sat Mar 16, 2019 11:34 am

Ed Lijewski wrote:
Thu Mar 07, 2019 3:55 pm
What about the XR pump is so hateful...to you?
It's whiney.
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Re: Saginaw Power Steering Pump Conversion

Post by Ed Lijewski » Sun Mar 17, 2019 7:51 am

Stop whining (😉).

https://shop.advanceautoparts.com/p/lub ... 11289452-P

It stopped the "morning sickness" on my Scorpio p/s ~long time ago.

YMMV
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