4.6 head doesn't work/(duratec zetec discussion)

[turbofan]

holy crap that thread was AWESOME! you guys were kinda mean considering he was a newbie... but hey, it's merkur initiation.

but DANG... i never knew a test could be so entertaining!

[Turbopit]

I DID MANY SEARCHES I only said NO YELLING because everytime someone brings up different head options (besides volvo) they get yelled at. I have NEVER seen this mentioned before. If you would have read my original post I said that I had looked for this and found nothing. I have never seen THIS head mentioned before. I clearly stated that I new that it PROBABLY wouldn't work, however since I've seen no mention of it, and since it seems that it could possibly (on some distant planet) work, I would ask.

Did you do any research on your own about the 2 engines? Do any searches other than here? Like engine length? Go to the parts store and compare the head gaskets? etc...

[DPDISXR4Ti]

BTW, the head is from a mercruiser 470 or 180, can't remember. anyway, the valves are sized 2.010in 1.710ex. wanna say 11/32 stem, i have them at home. i'll check again later. just info for anyone wanting really big valves off the shelve.

Excellent! So you're saying this is a plug-n-play swap!?

[turbofan]

BTW, the head is from a mercruiser 470 or 180, can't remember. anyway, the valves are sized 2.010in 1.710ex. wanna say 11/32 stem, i have them at home. i'll check again later. just info for anyone wanting really big valves off the shelve.

Excellent! So you're saying this is a plug-n-play swap!?

where did that come from?!

[xr4tiguy]

yeah, I'm gonna drive an hour to the nearest parts store so that I can measure head gasket lengths when I could just say "Hey guys, does this work?" Hell NO!!! I'm not gonna jump through f@cking hoops and look up all this $#!* when I'm positive somebody on here can say yes or no right off the top of their head in two seconds. (Let's see, me searching on slow ass dial-up for 45 minutes or saying "Yo guys will this work?")
It doesn't work.... FINE. I don't really give a $#!* since I'm not gonna do it anyway. However I just thought that since I've never seen it mentioned maybe, just maybe, it was a new idea. I have ABSOLUTELY NO DESIRE TO EVER TRY TO FAB A HEAD FOR A MERKUR. EVER!! If I wanted tons of flow I would bite the bullet and get an Eslinger. But I know a lot of guys have the time, patience and skill to fab $#!%. So get off my A$$.

[turbofan]

it really is pathetic how much people get ragged on. i mean, there are questions like "what's the best list of mods for an XR4" that people should be shot for. but a question like the one xr4tiguy asked is perfectly valid. it takes 2 seconds to answer yes or no.

keep in mind everyone: the reason for the forum is so that NOT EVERYBODY HAS TO DO THE RESEARCH! so we can get ideas from each other and make each other's lives easier.

besides, the search function on this site TOTALLY SUCKS. you search and click on your thread. if it's not the right thread and you hit back, you have to do the search all over again. it's retarded. but then again, it could just be my computer, though i've had problems with it on a number of computers.

[Colin]

Whew...

If you want, I can grab an 8993 (2.3 headgasket) and compare it to one from a 4.6 SOHC (or DOHC?) tonight at work.... I promise they're nowhere near similar, but if you want me to check I will...

Colin

[Colin]

besides, the search function on this site TOTALLY SUCKS. you search and click on your thread. if it's not the right thread and you hit back, you have to do the search all over again.

I just keep the search results open in one tab, then open the individual threads in subsequent tabs...

[turbofan]

colin that's not what i'm saying, i'm just saying that the forum is meant to answer questions. i mean, most people would be perfectly happy to be directed to this thread or that site and do the reading themselves. the forum is not for spoon feeding, but it IS to make research MUCH easier. we're here to pick each other's brains.

[thesameguy]

Um.

I don't mean to be an ass, but why go through all the trouble of trying to make some head work when there are probably a dozen engines that will bolt right up to a T5 - more with readily available adapters - that will fit in the engine bay? I can only imagine it's a whole lot easier to fab up motor mounts than modify some existing head so it'll work.

Zetec engines are dirt cheap, turbo-able, tuneable, T5 compatible, small(er) and light(er). Seems like this is the simple solution... Am I missing something?

[anglin]

it really is pathetic how much people get ragged on. i mean, there are questions like "what's the best list of mods for an XR4" that people should be shot for. but a question like the one xr4tiguy asked is perfectly valid. it takes 2 seconds to answer yes or no.

He's suggesting something that he thinks is a new idea. He was aware that he was possible going to get roasted for asking. You'd think he'd do a little digging before he threw himself into the pit.

I realize that someone has probably thought of this before.

I realize that this probably won't work.

I realize that bringing this up is possibly the worst thing you can do on this forum.

All he seemed to know before hand was that he couldn't find any info on the swap. Brad's post, the first reply to the thread, and his total lack of response to Brad's question on the fundamentals of the swap, seem to indicate that he hadn't really been digging around for info on the Triton head.

how would you propose that a head designed for a chain-driven cam be used with a motor designed for a belt drive?

You'd think if he were interested in the swap, he would have done a little poking around on this issue. However, he stated later that he wasn't interested in doing the swap after all.

It doesn't work.... FINE. I don't really give a $#!* since I'm not gonna do it anyway.

So, what was the point of throwing this idea out there anyway? Maybe somebody else can do the research on his idea? If they try it it out and it works great, then the whole Merkur world will benefit from the "Triton 3-valve head swap."

Admittedly, in my "career" of posting to forums I've made some lazy posts to get answers to stuff that I didn't feel like doing the digging on my own for. Last decade I remember asking IMON about what vacuum hose sizes and lengths were on the XR4Ti so I could drive to the store and buy stuff to redo all my hoses. I was too damn lazy and disinterested at the time to actually pop the hood of my own car to look for myself. Why make others get the answers for me?

So, what do you think started this thread? Laziness or lack of enough interest to do the research on his own? We all know that it is way easier to type a couple words than to actually go outside and open the hood of the car, much less do research on a head swap.

A head swap is huge undertaking, even if the bolt holes line up. We know research is going to be a hard, long road. Heck, the Volvo swap idea has been around for more than four years and how many of those are running? And that research is already done!

keep in mind everyone: the reason for the forum is so that NOT EVERYBODY HAS TO DO THE RESEARCH! so we can get ideas from each other and make each other's lives easier.

But do we have to keep making each other's lives easier on a weekly/monthly basis by posting the same answers to the same questions over and over? Don't you think this will wear out the people who actually have the answers to the questions? How often does somebody say one of the following:

- My blue Felpro valve cover gasket it leaking, should I get another blue Felpro valve cover gasket?
- My dipstick keeps popping out and there is oil blowing out of every seal in the engine, should I go get another AutoZone PCV?
- My engine is a no start and doesn't have a spark. The distributor is turning and the cap/rotor/plugs/wires/coil have been replaced. What could it be?

The point is that there are people who know this information and they have already shared this information.

Yes, he is the first one I've seen who asked about the Triton 4.6 head. But, did he bother to look around for flow numbers on the head before he threw himself to the wolves? What's the point of a head conversion if performance will be worse?

I want you to think about that last point for a second... Was (internet research) effort put into seeing if the head would flow better than stock, before possibly sending people down the path of researching this head swap on their own? Was it taken into account the fact that 2 intake valves and one exhaust valve may not be a good idea for a turbo motor?

Ultimately, the post was made because it was easier for him to throw out the wild-ass idea than it was for him to do the digging to see if it is feasible.

yeah, I'm gonna drive an hour to the nearest parts store so that I can measure head gasket lengths when I could just say "Hey guys, does this work?" Hell NO!!! ... (Let's see, me searching on slow ass dial-up for 45 minutes or saying "Yo guys will this work?")

You know what I am going to do. I am going to start the head swap thread. Now, we can point people to what does work and doesn't work. Then people can refer directly to it. Wow. It's like searching, only easier.

besides, the search function on this site TOTALLY SUCKS. you search and click on your thread. if it's not the right thread and you hit back, you have to do the search all over again. it's retarded.

Hold the Shift key while you click the link to the page you want to read. This will open it in a new window. No going back and reloading the search. It is a big time saver.

HOWEVER, the search results can suck because of the users on the forum. When people have subject lines like "I have a question," how can that be helpful for searching? When folks have a subject line like "The Ford PCV" and the entire contents of the post are "how much," how can that be helpful to searching. I know this may sound obvious to some, but from what I've seen, it may be earth-shattering news to others. Folks need to write a clear, well-thought-out posts, that state what they are thinking. The subject line should be a concise summary of the contents of the post, and should probably be done AFTER the post has been written. (How many songwriters or journalists name their song or given an article its headline before actually writing?)

[Chuck W]

But do we have to keep making each other's lives easier on a weekly/monthly basis by posting the same answers to the same questions over and over? Don't you think this will wear out the people who actually have the answers to the questions?

The point is that there are people who know this information and they have already shared this information.

YES!

Personally I have reached the point of apathy (which is the next stage after being the "USE THE SEARCH FUNCTION " Nazi )

Sometimes I'm feeling helpful but I guess if folks what to be lazy, so can I...by not replying to their thread. I hate repeating myself.

[Specktor]

As a newbie to this forum, but not a newbie to forums , and once an admin of one . I find the more people know the less likely they are to share the knowledge, because they don't want to answer the question to thousands of newbies in 50k posts. His points were valid , hes got a lousy connection, search engines are non user friendly unless your looking for porn or spam.
And a persons grasp of what they do find is not always understandable. Most are not mechanics , or engineers,or parts guys. They are just the adverage person who is looking to create something after looking at the cars of the guys who are Mechanics, engineers, or parts guys. Wouldn't it be easier to just answer the question or point him to the post or just ignore the post. Just my 2 cents. OOppss have to get off the crate.

[xr4tiguy]

Ok look.

I was too lazy to look up all the information on a possible head swap that I...

A. Was not going to do.
B. Figured someone on here could answer in 2 seconds.

Did I look to see flow rates? NO
Did I look to see if the passages were the same? NO
Did I even look to see if the bolt holes were the same? NO

Why???? Because that would have been a pain in the ass. I did NO research other than looking through the search on this forum to see if anyone had ever mentioned it before. I saw no mention. So I thought to myself

"hmm.. I"ve had this idea for quite awhile. Maybe I'll just ask on the forum. Oh, but that one guy got the $#!* beat out of him for asking. But his question was discussed before. Mine has not. Oh well I've been on here long enough, and these guys aren't such huge a$$holes that they would get pissed about quickly saying yes or no to a simple yes or no question... or maybe, just maybe they might say.. "I've never heard of that before, maybe someone (who actually might want to do it) should check it out."

All in all I've seen a lot of dumb a$$ questions come through this forum, Mine.... Is not one of them. Thank you for your time.

[Colin]

You're leaving the forum because we shot down your idea? Talk about an overreaction...

You think nobody else in the history of turbofords has done the math (4.6/2=2.3) and considered this head? I think not. I guarantee somebody somewhere has lined up a couple of headgaskets, saw how vastly different they were, and tossed their idea in the bin. If they lined up, don't you think you would've heard about it by now?

It's gets really, really old to hear the same "revelations" from people who haven't even tried to line up a headgasket and check if the bores and bolts line up. Every single day, it seems, we're confronted with some guy who thinks he's just struck gold because he realized that the Ranger has had a Duratec 2.3 in it for years, or because xxxx manufacturer makes a DOHC 2.3L engine, or because a 4.6L V8 has TWO 2.3L cylinder banks!

Rule of Thumb: If you think a head swap seems obvious, but haven't heard anything about the head working on the Lima block, it probably DOES NOT work. There are so many 2.3's out there and everybody is looking for a better head - any and all "junkyard solutions" have already been found.

Colin