4.6 head doesn't work/(duratec zetec discussion)

thesameguy · Post by **thesameguy** » Mon Jan 09, 2006 6:28 pm

Colin wrote:^^ I'm with stupid.

The Volvo swap is already a borderline pain in the ass... if you're going to get any more complex, just swap the whole damn engine. The Duratec looks like a kick-ass mill.

Colin

The only issue I see with going Duratec four is that, if I'm not mistaken, they will not bolt up to a T5. Different bolt pattern on the flywheel side vs. every other Ford motor.

I still say Zetec. Cheap, decent bottom end, plenty of development. And it'll bolt up to T9 or T5...

turbofan · Post by **turbofan** » Mon Jan 09, 2006 6:31 pm

zetec... mmm... they're just a 2 liter aren't they? the SVT focus in standard trim is a little disappointing in the hp department...

Post by **John Brennan** » Mon Jan 09, 2006 6:41 pm

Yeah-- there's what will fit, and what will help by fitting-- not necessarily the same things, no?

thesameguy · Post by **thesameguy** » Mon Jan 09, 2006 6:43 pm

Zetecs were 1.6 to 2.0l IIRC. Not as much flexibility as the Duratec. But, the SVT Zetec spun to 7200 and made 170hp out of 2.0l - that's perfectly adequate. Some of the turbo'd Zetec Foci are making 300hp with bolt-on kits. Given the difficult of tuning these things in their stock environment (tough to hack ECU, returnless fuel system, etc.) that's pretty noteworthy. If I had a prayer of getting a turbo'd Zetec through California smog, I would not be "wasting" any time on the Lima. I might even consider a 3.0l Duratec - the Contour SVT is one of the most pleasant cars I've ever driven. 3.0l would have to be more pleasant!

fastmaul · Post by **fastmaul** » Tue Jan 10, 2006 1:40 am

turbofan wrote:zetec... mmm... they're just a 2 liter aren't they? the SVT focus in standard trim is a little disappointing in the hp department...

Don't knock "Only" 2 liter engines...

xr4tiguy · Post by **xr4tiguy** » Tue Jan 10, 2006 1:41 am

yeah, look at the s2000

Post by **DPDISXR4Ti** » Tue Jan 10, 2006 1:43 am

xr4tiguy wrote:yeah, look at the s2000

I bet that's exactly what Erik was thinking of!

MerkXRTurbo · Post by **MerkXRTurbo** » Tue Jan 10, 2006 10:42 am

The S2000 isn't very impressive. It only puts out 160 ft/lb of torque. Torque is the actual power output... and that's what a dyno measures. HP is just a calculation. Our 2.3Ts stock, put out more torque than a highly modded S2000.

Calculation for HP is TQ X RPM / 5252 = HP. You can take any engine and raise it's rev ability/power curve up to 8-9K and it will get big HP, but lose streetability and bottom end at the same time... this is all Honda did with the S2000. It's more or less just an insanely high revving version of every other engine that they have.

Play with the above formula for a few minutes if you never have. Try plugging in numbers, such as big torque with low RPM, and low torque with high RPM. The HP results are interesting, and it really improved my understanding of what HP may or may not mean.

MerkXRTurbo · Post by **MerkXRTurbo** » Tue Jan 10, 2006 11:02 am

We're looking at ACTUAL POWER OUTPUT. HP is nearly meaningless... it is a theoretical number, while torque can be measured. ANY auto manufucturer could get 250hp out of a 4 banger of any size... they just have better ways of doing so that don't lose the streetability in the process.

thesameguy · Post by **thesameguy** » Tue Jan 10, 2006 3:42 pm

MerkXRTurbo wrote:We're looking at ACTUAL POWER OUTPUT. HP is nearly meaningless... it is a theoretical number, while torque can be measured. ANY auto manufucturer could get 250hp out of a 4 banger of any size... they just have better ways of doing so that don't lose the streetability in the process.

Um. Explain to me exactly how you arrived at the conclusion that horsepower is meaningless and/or immeasurable?

MerkXRTurbo · Post by **MerkXRTurbo** » Tue Jan 10, 2006 3:52 pm

Dynos measure torque, and calculate HP from there. There is NO device to measure HP. I didn't say it was completely meaningless... just nearly. Torque gives you a much better idea of how powerful an engine really is.

If HP is the number to look at, then don't buy a diesel truck. They don't even put out 200 crank HP.

xr4tiguy · Post by **xr4tiguy** » Tue Jan 10, 2006 4:12 pm

That may be true, however horsepower is also essential. Look at indy cars, lots of horsepower, very little torque, they are also running at 3 times the rpm's of normal cars. As long as you keep them boiling they are powerhouses. The same goes for the s2000, keep shoveling coals on the fire and that SOB will move. The cars are built that way, as long as you keep the rpms up you're fine. It's a completely different kind of power. The dyno might not be "accurate" however the fact that an s2000 is as fast as it is should prove something.

Another powerful 2 liter is that found in the evolution. I personally hate mitsubishi (a lot of bad luck with the old talon/eclipses) however they do make a lot of power.

MerkXRTurbo · Post by **MerkXRTurbo** » Tue Jan 10, 2006 4:15 pm

xr4tiguy wrote:That may be true, however horsepower is also essential. Look at indy cars, lots of horsepower, very little torque, they are also running at 3 times the rpm's of normal cars.

Correct, but youy could never drive one on the street. This is a good setup for the track... just not for the street. Honda should have bolted a turbo to the S2000 and kept the torque peak somewhere between 3500-6500.

rocks · Post by **rocks** » Tue Jan 10, 2006 4:19 pm

One of the best 4s i think that was ever made is in the porsche 968.
Type: Inline-4
Displacement: 2990 cc
Horsepower: 236 bhp @ 6200 rpm
Torque: 225 lb-ft @ 4100 rpm
Redline: 6300 rpm

They are insane when built for turbocharging. Check this link, http://www.powerhaus.com/968t.htm#968 Turbo Conversion - 16V Performance Comparison

porsche built a turbo version but canned it, because it made it the fastest porsche in production and they didnt want it to outperform the 911.

xr4tiguy · Post by **xr4tiguy** » Tue Jan 10, 2006 4:20 pm

I don't think this makes it any less streetable. The car loves to rev, just use those 6 gears to your advantage and keep her close to redline and you're golden (you won't hurt anything, it's a honda)

As for tooling around town it has plenty of torque for that. When you wanna go play kick in the afterburner.